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Thread: Harmoney

  1. #4381
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    Default You Have Got to be Kidding

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    This is the quality the retail lenders are offered - after Harmoney picks the respectable stuff first?

  2. #4382
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJ1 View Post
    This is the quality the retail lenders are offered - after Harmoney picks the respectable stuff first?
    I really like Re-Writes.... Showing their commitment to the cause..... I would not have an issue with those loans!

  3. #4383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saamee View Post
    I really like Re-Writes.... Showing their commitment to the cause..... I would not have an issue with those loans!
    I have an issue...one's repayments are close to a third of their net income and the other is nearly half. That's not responsible lending and when they can't afford the repayments we lenders will carry the can as the borrowers will have a justifiable out resultant from the irresponsible lending!
    Last edited by joker; 30-09-2019 at 09:38 PM.

  4. #4384
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJ1 View Post
    YHGTBK.JPG
    This is the quality the retail lenders are offered - after Harmoney picks the respectable stuff first?
    Harmoney have made statements which basically state that they are shifting away from the retail P2P. Is there any independent protection oversight for their retail P2P lenders to make sure that Harmoney does not just provide the "dregs" of the loans for the retail P2P lenders, whom it seems are now just a distracting annoyance for Harmoney?

  5. #4385
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    It is up to lenders to winnow the offering Bjauck - anyone taking on the two loans above has a much higher risk profile than I. The loans were filled so either there were a lot of "desperate" Retail lenders or the main wholesale lenders were used to fill the void. Although I am frustrated by the quality of loans on offer to Retail, I am more concerned that Harmoney continues to provide satisfactory management services on those loans that Retail are invested in, and not focus its resources on its own book. After reviewing my loans in arrears over recent months, I feel that Retail can have no guarantee on this matter.

  6. #4386
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    I understand that individual retail investors/lenders make a selection out of those loans that Harmoney makes available to them. However Harmoney may have already winnowed the loans to favour themselves or other corporate sweethearts.

    As Harmoney is a mixed P2P/Traditional Finance Company do the retail investors/lenders, who tend to be less sophisticated than the corporate lenders, have any protection from such discrimination arising within Harmoney and of which they may not even be aware?

  7. #4387
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    We are becoming such a small % it would surely hardly be worth taking on crappy loans and sifting them to retail. Clearly there is a lot of competition for P2P exposure so not surprising that the loans that hang around tend to be the dregs that the algorithm missed! I understand the frustrations but if you really don't trust them best stop investing. If I thought they were capable of such cynical behavior I would certainly stop investing. I think Harmoney has been captured by its financiers. Hopefully Lending Crowd can step up and deliver the benefits of the P2P to both borrowers and lenders.

  8. #4388
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    My possibly final observation on the matter - it's only since Harmoney borrowed bank money and started investing in its own right that all the changes to loan quality, quantity and substantially increased rewrites have occurred. If it looks, talks, walks like a duck.............

  9. #4389
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJ1 View Post
    My possibly final observation on the matter - it's only since Harmoney borrowed bank money and started investing in its own right that all the changes to loan quality, quantity and substantially increased rewrites have occurred. If it looks, talks, walks like a duck.............
    In my experience substantial rewrites have been occuring since the begining.

  10. #4390
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMJH View Post
    We are becoming such a small % it would surely hardly be worth taking on crappy loans and sifting them to retail. Clearly there is a lot of competition for P2P exposure so not surprising that the loans that hang around tend to be the dregs that the algorithm missed! I understand the frustrations but if you really don't trust them best stop investing.....
    No...if there is a possibility of discriminatory behaviour favouring corporate lenders over its retail P2P lenders by a P2P licensed operator shouldn’t it indicate that the P2P regulatory environment is inadequate?

    Sure that is what happened in the past in NZ - retail investors have felt that the NZ financial environment operates under the law of the jungle. Hence one of the reasons why we end up investing so much in expensive residential real estate instead. Is that a difference between NZ and (other) developed countries?
    Last edited by Bjauck; 02-10-2019 at 05:27 PM.

  11. #4391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    No...if there is a possibility of discriminatory behaviour favouring corporate lenders over its retail P2P lenders by a P2P licensed operator shouldn’t it indicate that the P2P regulatory environment is inadequate?

    Sure that is what happened in the past in NZ - retail investors have felt that the NZ financial environment operates under the law of the jungle. Hence we end up investing so much in expensive residential real estate instead. Is that the difference between NZ and (other) developed countries? NZ consequently has a smaller percentage of household assets invested in financial investments.
    I don't disagree with you in a wider sense. But for Harmoney to be systematically operating two algorithms or manually biffing mis-priced loans to retail would be quite outrageous to me and seems unlikely. Possible I suppose, and maybe they could even justify it with commercial arguments. I would be very interested if others think this is probable. Certainly doesn't give you a warm feeling to know that there is a parallel platform with undisclosed RAR but I haven't visited the disclosures lately so maybe it is covered off somewhere.

  12. #4392
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    Hi,
    Newbie to the forum, and very grateful for the knowledge and advice shared here by you good people.


    I have read your whole thread (took me a few weeks!) and I see that you guys have compiled some really interesting and complex reports to try and identify likely defaults and arrears.


    My first question to you is: isn't that analysis a bit moot when borrowers can lie through their teeth during their application? I know Harmoney will want to see bank statements, ID and proof of income, but as for marital status, and especially purpose of loan, anyone can put 'education expenses' instead of 'holiday expenses' as it clearly looks better. Given that sometimes the declared monthly income is clearly wrong, how robust are Harmoney's processes for verifying information? I have huge doubts.


    2nd question: I have my Chrome browser on auto-refresh (60s) but every 12-15 minutes or so it still says "you've been logged out" asks me to log in again, which is very annoying. LendingCrowd website does not do this. Do you guys have the same issue?


    3rd question: I only recently passed the $10,000 outstanding principal, and my understanding is that I am being charged fees of 17.5% of gross interest instead of 20%, but is that only for loans taken after I went from below $10k to over? Or will all my gross interest (even for my first loans) from now on be charged at 17.5%?


    4th point - there were discussions around why does Harmoney charge tax on gross interest, I know it is annoying but it's not their fault, it's the law, and this is because the law has not differentiated between P2P investing and normal passive bank term deposit investing. RWT applicable on gross interest, not Harmoney's fault. The law is an ass in this case. Maybe Harmoney should have pushed more for a special regime for P2P but they haven't (so maybe they're at fault on this point after all).
    Speaking of tax, have all of you put this investment in your kids name/IRD no, or yours? Kids would get 10.5% RWT rate, would they not? (unless they already earn, but I am talking young kids, under the age of 10)


    I don't have a RAR yet, I've only been in 2 months, I believe it kicks in at 3, but will share when Harmoney gives it to me. No XIRR either as I still have loans that have not returned anything so would be pointless.

  13. #4393
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    Toukshare: Legally, the only way to have an investment in your child's name is to formally gift the asset to the child resulting in you having no legal right to the asset thereafter. Anything else is an attempt to circumvent tax law and the consequences can be disastrous. If you hold the asset in trust, then the tax rate is the trustee tax rate for children under 16. My suggestion: don't try it.

  14. #4394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toukshare View Post
    Hi,
    3rd question: I only recently passed the $10,000 outstanding principal, and my understanding is that I am being charged fees of 17.5% of gross interest instead of 20%, but is that only for loans taken after I went from below $10k to over? Or will all my gross interest (even for my first loans) from now on be charged at 17.5%?
    The 17.5% applies only for the new loans. You will still be charged 20% for the old ones.

  15. #4395
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    One Has to wonder if anyone does look at the income details with any common sense. Really $33,771.62 ,monthly income

  16. #4396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toukshare View Post
    Hi,
    Speaking of tax, have all of you put this investment in your kids name/IRD no, or yours? Kids would get 10.5% RWT rate, would they not? (unless they already earn, but I am talking young kids, under the age of 10)
    I am going to assume you are wanting to invest your kids money on their behalf, rather than attempt a tax dodge. When I last enquired to do this on behalf of my son Harmoney didn't allow kids to invest on their platform.

    And neither did Lending Crowd either.

  17. #4397
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewfreestuff View Post
    I am going to assume you are wanting to invest your kids money on their behalf, rather than attempt a tax dodge. When I last enquired to do this on behalf of my son Harmoney didn't allow kids to invest on their platform.

    And neither did Lending Crowd either.
    I absolutely do not advocate a tax dodge. But I do invest some money on my children's behalf and as a responsible parent, want them to have a diverse portfolio. P2P Lending is part of that, as well as Kiwisaver, term deposits and property. They are not at an age where they can manage their investments, so I do it for them. But I believe they are entitled to their fair tax rate, even if the actual management is done by me.

    As a man wiser than me said "tax evasion is a crime, tax avoidance is a duty"

  18. #4398
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    another HEADS UP: if you hold it as their trustee (in your name, not theirs) then the trustee tax rate applies.

  19. #4399
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    An inglorious milestone: today my dashboard told me I have earned more in gross interest than the value of loans remaining outstanding. From the significantly reduced commentary on this forum in recent months I guess that many other lenders are feeling the same frustration I am - or perhaps, as usually happens when market returns fall, people are taking on increased risk.

  20. #4400
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    I'm still happy with the return - not so happy with the volume of loans.

    I've pretty much settled on try to keep about $120K invested. Anything over that and my funds available just grows.

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