sharetrader
Page 221 of 229 FirstFirst ... 121171211217218219220221222223224225 ... LastLast
Results 4,401 to 4,420 of 4580

Thread: Harmoney

  1. #4401
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    227

    Default

    yep, RAR and filters stable but cash is growing again!

  2. #4402
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    , , New Zealand.
    Posts
    526

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BJ1 View Post
    From the significantly reduced commentary on this forum in recent months I guess that many other lenders are feeling the same frustration I am ...
    Indeed, I am too. RAR falling, have had to extract more than half my (peak) funds now, since there has been little opportunity to deploy them on this platform in recent months. Checking it is becoming a waste of time.

    Thank you Harmoney and Institutionals for usurping my share...

  3. #4403
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    38

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BJ1 View Post
    From the significantly reduced commentary on this forum in recent months I guess that many other lenders are feeling the same frustration I am - or perhaps, as usually happens when market returns fall, people are taking on increased risk.
    Having only recently joined Harmoney, I am at a different stage in the cycle than many of the established commenters here. I am so recent I don't even had a RAR yet!
    Before investing, I read your whole thread, as I found it to be the most informative and impartial piece of information on HM anywhere on the web. It seems to me also that you guys thought the best days of HM were a few years ago. That's no good to me but I'll still plough on regardless. Currently reinvesting any interest and principal paid back, checking daily, one $25 note at a time...

  4. #4404
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Anybody else having login issues this morning? My email & password (saved in LastPass) apparently don't match, and the forgot password page is down.

    Edit: Seems it was a very temporary thing, or I hit the end of it. App & website now both working.
    Last edited by ream; 23-10-2019 at 09:28 AM.

  5. #4405
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    38

    Default

    Harmoney is proposing a new scorecard (v1.6), got an email yesterday about it. Rates charged to borrowers are much reduced in grades C, D and E, a bit reduced in Bs and Fs, and unchanged in As.
    The amount they can borrow will also change: Fs will be able to borrow up to $15k, Es up to $25k, Ds up to $35k, Cs up to $45k, Bs up to $55k and As unchanged at $70k.


    grade old rate new rate variance old limit new limit
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    A1 6.99% 6.99% NIL $70,000 $70,000
    A2 7.99% 7.99% NIL
    $70,000 $70,000
    A3 9.20% 9.20% NIL $70,000 $70,000
    A4 10.50% 10.50% NIL $70,000 $70,000
    A5 11.99% 11.99% NIL $70,000 $70,000
    B1 13.39% 12.39% -1.00% $55,000 $50,000
    B2 14.75% 12.59% -2.16% $55,000 $50,000
    B3 15.80% 12.80% -3.00% $55,000 $50,000
    B4 16.99% 13.99% -3.00% $55,000 $50,000
    B5 17.80% 14.80% -3.00% $55,000 $50,000
    C1 18.90% 15.90% -3.00% $45,000 $40,000
    C2 20.40% 17.40% -3.00% $45,000 $40,000
    C3 21.90% 17.59% -3.00% $45,000 $40,000
    C4 22.99% 17.99% -5.00% $45,000 $40,000
    C5 23.99% 18.49% -5.50% $45,000 $40,000
    D1 24.70% 18.99% -5.71% $35,000 $30,000
    D2 25.20% 19.49% -5.71% $35,000 $30,000
    D3 25.49% 19.99% -5.51% $35,000 $30,000
    D4 25.99% 20.99% -5.00% $35,000 $30,000
    D5 26.49% 21.49% -5.00% $35,000 $30,000
    E1 26.99% 21.99% -5.00% $25,000 $20,000
    E2 27.49% 22.49% -5.00% $25,000 $20,000
    E3 27.99% 23.99% -4.00% $25,000 $20,000
    E4 28.29% 24.29% -4.00% $25,000 $20,000
    E5 28.69% 24.69% -4.00% $25,000 $20,000
    F1 28.99% 26.99% -2.00% $15,000 $10,000
    F2 29.19% 27.99% -1.20% $15,000 $10,000
    F3 29.49% 28.99% -0.50% $10,000 $15,000
    F4 29.69% 29.69% NIL $10,000 $15,000
    F5 29.99% 29.99% NIL $10,000 $15,000


    New scorecard and details here. HM also says that a new C3 will not be an old C3, hence why the rates were adjusted.
    I find the rate drop in Cs and Ds quite drastic - it will be hard to go and chase the 20%+. I guess it depends on an individual investor's strategy. Personally, I was quite content to stay B5 to D3, but to achieve reasonable returns of, say, 17-18%, I will either have to go "deeper" to the mid Es, or to forgo As and Bs and reduce diversification and solely focus on C1 to D5 or thereabouts.
    Food for thought...
    Last edited by Toukshare; 23-10-2019 at 10:25 AM.

  6. #4406
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    38

    Default

    Harmoney is proposing a new scorecard (v1.6), got an email yesterday about it. Rates charged to borrowers are much reduced in grades C, D and E, a bit reduced in Bs and Fs, and unchanged in As.
    The amount they can borrow will also change: Fs will be able to borrow up to $15k, Es up to $25k, Ds up to $35k, Cs up to $45k, Bs up to $55k and As unchanged at $70k.


    grade old rate new rate variance old limit new limit
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    A1 ... 6.99% .. 6.99% . NIL .... $70,000 . $70,000
    A2
    ... 7.99% .. 7.99% . NIL.... $70,000 . $70,000
    A3
    ... 9.20% .. 9.20% . NIL .... $70,000 . $70,000
    A4
    ...10.50% ..10.50% . NIL .... $70,000 . $70,000
    A5
    ...11.99% ..11.99% . NIL .... $70,000 . $70,000
    B1
    ...13.39% ..12.39% .-1.00% .. $55,000 . $50,000
    B2
    ...14.75% ..12.59% .-2.16% .. $55,000 . $50,000
    B3
    ...15.80% ..12.80% .-3.00% .. $55,000 . $50,000
    B4
    ...16.99% ..13.99% .-3.00% .. $55,000 . $50,000
    B5
    ...17.80% ..14.80% .-3.00% .. $55,000 . $50,000
    C1
    ...18.90% ..15.90% .-3.00% .. $45,000 . $40,000
    C2
    ...20.40% ..17.40% .-3.00% .. $45,000 . $40,000
    C3
    ...21.90% ..17.59% .-3.00% .. $45,000 . $40,000
    C4
    ...22.99% ..17.99% .-5.00% .. $45,000 . $40,000
    C5
    ...23.99% ..18.49% .-5.50% .. $45,000 . $40,000
    D1
    ...24.70% ..18.99% .-5.71% .. $35,000 . $30,000
    D2
    ...25.20% ..19.49% .-5.71% .. $35,000 . $30,000
    D3
    ...25.49% ..19.99% .-5.51% .. $35,000 . $30,000
    D4
    ...25.99% ..20.99% .-5.00% .. $35,000 . $30,000
    D5
    ...26.49% ..21.49% .-5.00% .. $35,000 . $30,000
    E1
    ...26.99% ..21.99% .-5.00% .. $25,000 . $20,000
    E2
    ...27.49% ..22.49% .-5.00% .. $25,000 . $20,000
    E3
    ...27.99% ..23.99% .-4.00% .. $25,000 . $20,000
    E4
    ...28.29% ..24.29% .-4.00% .. $25,000 . $20,000
    E5
    ...28.69% ..24.69% .-4.00% .. $25,000 . $20,000
    F1
    ...28.99% ..26.99% .-2.00% .. $15,000 . $10,000
    F2
    ...29.19% ..27.99% .-1.20% .. $15,000 . $10,000
    F3
    ...29.49% ..28.99% .-0.50% .. $15,000 . $10,000
    F4
    ...29.69% ..29.69% . NIL .... $15,000 . $10,000
    F5
    ...29.99% ..29.99% . NIL .... $15,000 . $10,000

    New scorecard and details here. HM also says that a
    new C3 will not be an old C3, hence why the rates were adjusted.
    I find the rate drop in Cs and Ds quite drastic - it will be hard to go and chase the 20%+. I guess it depends on an individual investor's strategy. Personally, I was quite content to stay B5 to D3, but to achieve reasonable returns of, say, 17-18%, I will either have to go "deeper" to the mid Es, or to forgo As and Bs and reduce diversification and solely focus on C1 to D5 or thereabouts.
    Food for thought...

  7. #4407
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    , , .
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Toukshare View Post
    But I do invest some money on my children's behalf and as a responsible parent, want them to have a diverse portfolio. P2P Lending is part of that, as well as Kiwisaver, term deposits and property. They are not at an age where they can manage their investments, so I do it for them. But I believe they are entitled to their fair tax rate, even if the actual management is done by me.
    While I have not enquired for a while, I have not found any NZ P2P providers that accept children. Like you I wanted to invest on behalf. Does anyone have any ideas about WHY the P2P lenders wouldn't accept children? Is there a legal reason? Or is it just a hassle to set up and associate the responsible parent etc? Quite a few managed funds have accepted his money and tax bracket.

  8. #4408
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    227

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Toukshare View Post
    Harmoney is proposing a new scorecard (v1.6), got an email yesterday about it. Rates charged to borrowers are much reduced in grades C, D and E, a bit reduced in Bs and Fs, and unchanged in As.
    The amount they can borrow will also change: Fs will be able to borrow up to $15k, Es up to $25k, Ds up to $35k, Cs up to $45k, Bs up to $55k and As unchanged at $70k.


    grade old rate new rate variance old limit new limit
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    A1 6.99% 6.99% NIL $70,000 $70,000
    A2 7.99% 7.99% NIL
    $70,000 $70,000
    A3 9.20% 9.20% NIL $70,000 $70,000
    A4 10.50% 10.50% NIL $70,000 $70,000
    A5 11.99% 11.99% NIL $70,000 $70,000
    B1 13.39% 12.39% -1.00% $55,000 $50,000
    B2 14.75% 12.59% -2.16% $55,000 $50,000
    B3 15.80% 12.80% -3.00% $55,000 $50,000
    B4 16.99% 13.99% -3.00% $55,000 $50,000
    B5 17.80% 14.80% -3.00% $55,000 $50,000
    C1 18.90% 15.90% -3.00% $45,000 $40,000
    C2 20.40% 17.40% -3.00% $45,000 $40,000
    C3 21.90% 17.59% -3.00% $45,000 $40,000
    C4 22.99% 17.99% -5.00% $45,000 $40,000
    C5 23.99% 18.49% -5.50% $45,000 $40,000
    D1 24.70% 18.99% -5.71% $35,000 $30,000
    D2 25.20% 19.49% -5.71% $35,000 $30,000
    D3 25.49% 19.99% -5.51% $35,000 $30,000
    D4 25.99% 20.99% -5.00% $35,000 $30,000
    D5 26.49% 21.49% -5.00% $35,000 $30,000
    E1 26.99% 21.99% -5.00% $25,000 $20,000
    E2 27.49% 22.49% -5.00% $25,000 $20,000
    E3 27.99% 23.99% -4.00% $25,000 $20,000
    E4 28.29% 24.29% -4.00% $25,000 $20,000
    E5 28.69% 24.69% -4.00% $25,000 $20,000
    F1 28.99% 26.99% -2.00% $15,000 $10,000
    F2 29.19% 27.99% -1.20% $15,000 $10,000
    F3 29.49% 28.99% -0.50% $10,000 $15,000
    F4 29.69% 29.69% NIL $10,000 $15,000
    F5 29.99% 29.99% NIL $10,000 $15,000


    New scorecard and details here. HM also says that a new C3 will not be an old C3, hence why the rates were adjusted.
    I find the rate drop in Cs and Ds quite drastic - it will be hard to go and chase the 20%+. I guess it depends on an individual investor's strategy. Personally, I was quite content to stay B5 to D3, but to achieve reasonable returns of, say, 17-18%, I will either have to go "deeper" to the mid Es, or to forgo As and Bs and reduce diversification and solely focus on C1 to D5 or thereabouts.
    Food for thought...
    Thanks for the analysis. You would need to line up interest rate against probability of default to get comparable interest rate changes but on the face ot it looks like a massive rate cut that will send RAR's crashing through 10%.

  9. #4409
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    227

    Default

    Ah, I think you are not comparing to 1.5! The rate reductions are much less... but shows how much times have changed since launch

  10. #4410
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    211

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RMJH View Post
    Thanks for the analysis. You would need to line up interest rate against probability of default to get comparable interest rate changes but on the face ot it looks like a massive rate cut that will send RAR's crashing through 10%.
    Yuck

    On the plus side for Harmoney they'll pick up plenty of extra rewrite commissions
    Last edited by leesal; 23-10-2019 at 03:27 PM.

  11. #4411
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    christchurch
    Posts
    390

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RMJH View Post
    Ah, I think you are not comparing to 1.5! The rate reductions are much less... but shows how much times have changed since launch
    Unfortunately, he IS comparing to 1.5 and it is that drastic!!

    Worst still, the default rate is up for C4 to E5. For example under 1.5, E2 interest rate is 27.49% and annual chance of default is 3.73%. Under 1.6, E1 interest is now 22.49%, a drop of 5% while the annual default has gone up to 5.56%.

    So we are being hit both ways! RAR will definitely drop. But with Reserve bank interest rate approaching zero, it is rather expected.

    Regards
    CB

  12. #4412
    yeah, nah
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    482

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cool Bear View Post
    But with Reserve bank interest rate approaching zero, it is rather expected.
    I'm surprised it has taken so long.

    It will be interesting to see if loan volume picks up after these changes go through - not including re-writes, which may well see a fairly significant rise in available funds

  13. #4413
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    38

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cool Bear View Post
    So we are being hit both ways! RAR will definitely drop. But with Reserve bank interest rate approaching zero, it is rather expected.
    I think that's what is driving the interest rates drop from a commercial point of view. I am guessing that most lending institutions (including banks) have had to drop their rates. And (for those of use with mortgages) while we are happy for our mortgage rates to drop down to 3.45% or thereabouts, this also means that borrowing rates across the board are also dropping.

    Because as Cool Bear says, a drop in the interest rate for a particular grade doesn't mean that it has less chance of default as before, comparatively. A similar chance of default percentage now corresponds to a lower interest rate, so we lenders are being ask to risk more for the same return.

    Interestingly, Harmoney also claims that they now have more than 5 years worth of data regarding risks and are now able to fine-tune their expected default rates, risk analysis etc. That may be true also?

  14. #4414
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    211

    Default

    Worked out the net impact on my current portfolio. My current weighted average interest rate on loans is 20%... superimposing new interestrates on revised dashboard it will be 17%

    As per coolbear comments above, default rates unlikely to have changed in the last 2 years... that 3% reduction just a full hit to investor return.

    I wonder how the insto's feel about the drastically reduced income with practically no change to the underlying risk?

  15. #4415
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Norf Eyelynd
    Posts
    752

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by leesal View Post
    Worked out the net impact on my current portfolio. My current weighted average interest rate on loans is 20%... superimposing new interestrates on revised dashboard it will be 17%

    As per coolbear comments above, default rates unlikely to have changed in the last 2 years... that 3% reduction just a full hit to investor return.

    I wonder how the insto's feel about the drastically reduced income with practically no change to the underlying risk?
    Inevesting Interest Rates have gone down across the board, everywhere you look.... Why would P2P be any different?

    If they get no customers becuase their % Rates are too high - Investors would not be happy either!!

  16. #4416
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    211

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Saamee View Post
    Inevesting Interest Rates have gone down across the board, everywhere you look.... Why would P2P be any different?

    If they get no customers becuase their % Rates are too high - Investors would not be happy either!!
    Do you not feel that consumer finance in the unsecured space has a degree of inelasticity of demand?

    Recall Myles mentioning Gem charging AER of 49%; and the unregulated loan shark shops continue to be a problem. OCR hasn't fallen off a cliff, its reduced by 0.75% in 3 years.

    Intrigued what prompted harmoney to go this hard in their reduction. If they are supposedly making "no money" off loan applications; and investing their own money into the platform? Maybe the insto's are happy with 7% RAR instead of 10%, wonder how they'll like it when the market tanks.

  17. #4417
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    38

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by leesal View Post
    Worked out the net impact on my current portfolio. My current weighted average interest rate on loans is 20%... superimposing new interestrates on revised dashboard it will be 17%

    As per coolbear comments above, default rates unlikely to have changed in the last 2 years... that 3% reduction just a full hit to investor return.

    I wonder how the insto's feel about the drastically reduced income with practically no change to the underlying risk?
    I agree - I was aiming for a weighted average lending rate of around 20%, which put me at a C2 "centerpoint". I will now have to get down to a D5 (!) centerpoint, which obviously carries a lot more defaults risk. I too think the reduction in rates are drastic. Down 5% in some grades is not fine-tuning, it's a complete change of tack.

  18. #4418
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    227

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Toukshare View Post
    I agree - I was aiming for a weighted average lending rate of around 20%, which put me at a C2 "centerpoint". I will now have to get down to a D5 (!) centerpoint, which obviously carries a lot more defaults risk. I too think the reduction in rates are drastic. Down 5% in some grades is not fine-tuning, it's a complete change of tack.
    Sorry I doubted your numbers, it just seemed way too radical! Agree this is a dramatic repricing of risk. The base rate component of these loans is practically immaterial on the higher grades.

  19. #4419
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    38

    Default

    No problem - actually my new centerpoint is D3, not D5. Still a big step down from C2.

  20. #4420
    yeah, nah
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    482

    Default

    Toukshare,

    You may find the following two charts of interest - these are my current loan distribution and all time defaults (ignoring grades with small loan numbers):

    grades.png

    defaults.jpg

    Using Harmoney platform average default rates can be well off if you apply any form of 'sane' selection process to your loans. It should be pretty obvious why I favour D's and E's when I can get them. Lower grades may not necessarily be lower risk. Hard to compare when everyone's selection process is different.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •