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Thread: Harmoney

  1. #4471
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJ1 View Post
    I think it will suffer from morbidity alright. Perhaps the only question is: How Long? I saw this Leesal; it just confirmed my view Harmoney is sending all the garbage our way.
    On a benefit with a monthly income of $ 4000 , there is a TUI ad right there....... This is another loan that surely does not comply with the responsible lending code.
    What verification do they do on the income ???

  2. #4472
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoploss View Post
    On a benefit with a monthly income of $ 4000 , there is a TUI ad right there....... This is another loan that surely does not comply with the responsible lending code.
    What verification do they do on the income ???
    AI reading of electronic bank statements I believe - so if you've had a few months of good income selling on trade me (or maybe dealing in substances) your income is inflated accordingly.

  3. #4473
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoploss View Post
    On a benefit with a monthly income of $ 4000 , there is a TUI ad right there.......
    Nope, just filled in the WINZ calculator thing as if I was a late 20s solo parent with three young kids and a part time job. Winz would have given me $928/week after tax if the calculator is to be believed.

  4. #4474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond47 View Post
    Nope, just filled in the WINZ calculator thing as if I was a late 20s solo parent with three young kids and a part time job. Winz would have given me $928/week after tax if the calculator is to be believed.
    What was the breakdown ?

  5. #4475
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    See attached
    winz.jpg

  6. #4476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond47 View Post
    See attached
    winz.jpg
    It did say they were single living with parents so I very much doubt the accommodation supplement would be anywhere near 300....
    I may be wrong , but it doesn’t look right to me .
    Last edited by stoploss; 06-01-2020 at 08:30 PM.

  7. #4477
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoploss View Post
    It did say they were single living with parents so I very much doubt the accommodation supplement would be anywhere near 300....
    I may be wrong , but it doesn’t look right to me .
    Well, that assumes you tell WINZ you are living with parents.. and also excludes other possibilities, ACC payments based on someone on a good income struck down by disability being the obvious one.
    But yes, I saw that loan.. grabbed my 10 foot barge pole and pushed it away.

  8. #4478
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    At this risk of defending this I have a piece of that loan, mainly for information purposes. If HM is doing its job, then there should be zero difference in the performance between of "loans that look bad on paper", when compared to other loans of equivalent grade. So have started tracking these fugly loans, its early days but so far they have 0 defaults on $500 interest earned with about 6k active. The rest by way of comparison has a default rate of just under 10% of 16k interest, and have had some lovely looking loans turn sour. That said there are some loans that just wont touch .

    (BTW - fugly portfolio has average income repayment ratio of 28%; rest has 8%)

  9. #4479
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    Quote Originally Posted by leesal View Post
    At this risk of defending this I have a piece of that loan, mainly for information purposes. If HM is doing its job, then there should be zero difference in the performance between of "loans that look bad on paper", when compared to other loans of equivalent grade. So have started tracking these fugly loans, its early days but so far they have 0 defaults on $500 interest earned with about 6k active. The rest by way of comparison has a default rate of just under 10% of 16k interest, and have had some lovely looking loans turn sour. That said there are some loans that just wont touch .

    (BTW - fugly portfolio has average income repayment ratio of 28%; rest has 8%)

    @leesal > A good idea to do and try.


    I did something simiilar a gew years back with HM Re-Writes... Invested in Maxed out Re-Writes.

    Results were impressive with NO Losses.....

  10. #4480
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    Well I got my first loan write off. A grade, with house and never a payment made. Who would have thought it!!
    charge off.JPG

    Maybe I should just go for the F grades and get a better return if H can't get money out of someone with a house.

  11. #4481
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    Quote Originally Posted by vernon View Post
    Well I got my first loan write off. A grade, with house and never a payment made. Who would have thought it!!
    charge off.JPG

    Maybe I should just go for the F grades and get a better return if H can't get money out of someone with a house.

    I guess that's unsecured lending at its worst...a lot of the info borrowers supply is accepted on trust. Who knows the true state of the property, its ownership and value v debt. It may not even exist! Harmoney has proven time and time again that very little due diligence in done when checking borrowers bona fides. Essentially they're keen to get $450 for each loan written/rewritten (which is paid (lent) up front by us - the lenders) and probably view the interest commission/fee as a bonus!

  12. #4482
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    wow, 15 loans available at one time.. whats happened?

    Hmm, some with only 9 days remaining.. odd, there was nothing there an hour ago.
    Last edited by Vagabond47; 08-01-2020 at 03:19 PM.

  13. #4483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond47 View Post
    wow, 15 loans available at one time.. whats happened?

    Hmm, some with only 9 days remaining.. odd, there was nothing there an hour ago.
    Yes, saw that too. From nothing to 15 loans, all after pressing the 'refresh' button.

    Anyway just wanted to say I've had my first charged-off too. A B4!!! I did enquire to HM a while back, as no activity was seen against this loan, and no payment ever for about 4 months. I got a reply from HM saying this was a case of 'family fraud'. Whatever that means? (what is family fraud as opposed to straight-up fraud?).

    In any case, I would agree with the commenters here who said we are accepting HM's rating and information on trust, and suspect HM do not do a huge amount of due diligence (does the property exist? In what state is it in? What is its true ownership structure? What is the difference between 'living with parents' and 'renting'? How are bank statements PDFs checked? Do they check that the partner with large income is indeed a true partner? ....)

    So far out of 130 loans that are over 3 months old, I have about 5 where no repayment has ever been made, there's a B4, a C5, a D5, a E4 and a F2. Quite the mix!
    Last edited by Toukshare; 08-01-2020 at 05:10 PM. Reason: adding information

  14. #4484
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    Toukshare, be prepared for a higher rate of defaults as you build your portfolio - typically you feel the effects from 9 months to 15 months (depending on the speed of investing). As you build your portfolio the number of loans invested in is high, as is the number of defaults after the initial 'grace' period. Once you have the bulk of your $'s invested and move into replacement of paid/re-written loans, the number of loans you invest in reduces, as does the overall defaults. Have a look at some of the previously posted RAR curves and you'll see the typical peak that drops down to a relatively steady RAR - something to be prepared for.

  15. #4485
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    Quote Originally Posted by myles View Post
    Toukshare, be prepared for a higher rate of defaults as you build your portfolio - typically you feel the effects from 9 months to 15 months (depending on the speed of investing). As you build your portfolio the number of loans invested in is high, as is the number of defaults after the initial 'grace' period. Once you have the bulk of your $'s invested and move into replacement of paid/re-written loans, the number of loans you invest in reduces, as does the overall defaults. Have a look at some of the previously posted RAR curves and you'll see the typical peak that drops down to a relatively steady RAR - something to be prepared for.
    Thank you Myles. I am indeed prepared, having read the whole of this thread before investing 'proper'. So first of all, a big thank you for your own contributions on this thread, and to the others who have offered their wisdom and lessons learned from experience too. I particularly appreciated the stats. I know I will experience more defaults and charged off, and not necessarily only in the E and F grades. And as you say, my current RAR is somewhat meaningless, it only has proper value beyond 1 year of investing really.

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