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Thread: Harmoney

  1. #4126
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    Quote Originally Posted by myles View Post
    Some may find this of interest - Liquidity of Harmoney Loans:

    For the nearly 2 years I've had ~$100K invested, the average age of my Paid Off loans (1370 Loans) is 255 days and the average age of my current loans (996) is 369 days. [Charged off loans average age is 348 days]

    I guess if things go to custard these figures will change, but Liquidity, perhaps, is not such a big issue when compared to the alternatives (if you want to at least keep up with inflation).

    Not sure if this is similar across all P2P markets though?

    NB: Total turnover for my loans has been $265,475.00 [added] and that doesn't include re-investing $20K - so in 2 years about a 3x turnover.
    Not for the faint hearted!

    My repayment rate is tracking at 2% of principal repayments of outstanding per week, which annualises to 65%. Not too bad if you want to get out quick.

    Dovetails in with your figures. Invest $x p/a to hold a book of $x (where x is insert your chosen portfolio size).

  2. #4127
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    Quote Originally Posted by myles View Post
    Taking stock of Harmoney's poor loan availability over the last 4-5 months and have decided to move some money out.

    .......................
    .......................
    I hope things change - either more loans, or Harmoney swing the Wholesale:Retail ratio back a bit, but I can't hold out any longer...
    In January 2018, I invested in over 500 new loans for that month. Had been downhill after that. January 2019, only 79. This month, will be lucky to hit 50. Took out about 25% in cash in the last 12 months and despite that the cash balance is still growing too fast.

    Over at Zagga, there does not seems to be enough investors and (the very few) loans take quite a number of days to fill and sometimes cannot be filled. Admittedly the loans there are quite large - sometimes well over $1m. So maybe some of you with loads of spare cash can go there and help out.

  3. #4128
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    Quote Originally Posted by myles View Post
    Some may find this of interest - Liquidity of Harmoney Loans:

    For the nearly 2 years I've had ~$100K invested, the average age of my Paid Off loans (1370 Loans) is 255 days and the average age of my current loans (996) is 369 days. [Charged off loans average age is 348 days]

    I guess if things go to custard these figures will change, but Liquidity, perhaps, is not such a big issue when compared to the alternatives (if you want to at least keep up with inflation).

    Not sure if this is similar across all P2P markets though?

    NB: Total turnover for my loans has been $265,475.00 [added] and that doesn't include re-investing $20K - so in 2 years about a 3x turnover.
    yeah I found if you put a bunch of money in across a diversified loan spread and don't re-invest you will get about 50% of your money back via interest and loans being paid back early, i the first year.

    Mirin your returns btw myles - I invested just over $100k initially and have left it withdrawal out til I got to a balance of $50k which is where I am at now. I've been in about 2.5 years.

  4. #4129
    yeah, nah
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    Default Zagga query

    Quote Originally Posted by Cool Bear View Post
    Over at Zagga, there does not seems to be enough investors and (the very few) loans take quite a number of days to fill and sometimes cannot be filled. Admittedly the loans there are quite large - sometimes well over $1m. So maybe some of you with loads of spare cash can go there and help out.
    CB, do you know how much of the single listed default loan was recovered. The Zagga model is quite different to others. Having to invest much larger sums in limited loans increases the risk from not diversifying. However, if their loans are as well sourced and secured as they suggest, it might be worth the risk.

    Are the loans under the 'Search Loans' tab, currently available loans with the % value the amount funded? When I first saw that I was confused and thought that the % was the rate which made no sense with same 'grade' i.e. C4 loans with large rate ranges i.e. from 7.59% to 14.39%:

    loan1.jpg

    loan2.jpg

    How long does it typically take for those loans to actually get filled - I assume you need to have the funds sitting idle while the loan is filled?

    Thanks CB.

  5. #4130
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    Default Zagga

    Quote Originally Posted by myles View Post
    CB, do you know how much of the single listed default loan was recovered. The Zagga model is quite different to others. Having to invest much larger sums in limited loans increases the risk from not diversifying. However, if their loans are as well sourced and secured as they suggest, it might be worth the risk.

    Are the loans under the 'Search Loans' tab, currently available loans with the % value the amount funded? When I first saw that I was confused and thought that the % was the rate which made no sense with same 'grade' i.e. C4 loans with large rate ranges i.e. from 7.59% to 14.39%:

    loan1.jpg

    loan2.jpg

    How long does it typically take for those loans to actually get filled - I assume you need to have the funds sitting idle while the loan is filled?

    Thanks CB.
    I address your last question first. You do not have to deposit funds with Zagga at all. Only after a loan gets filled, they will email you and give you a date when your agreed investments must reach them. So no idle funds in that sense.

    The interest rates seems to be all over the place. The grading is based on risk of defaults as well as LVR (loan to value ratio). They do have a guide on what interest rate they charge for each grade but they seems to deviate from that and treat each case on its merit.

    When a loan is published, there are a ton of information. Everything is disclosed, name of person/s (company), their credit ratings, sale and purchase agreement (if applicable), their income, their assets and liability, valuation of the property, etc etc.. So you can take your time to decide. You are much closer to a loan officer in a bank than with Harmoney or the others.

    As for that default, the LVR was really low, well below 50%, so nobody lost any money yet.

    Loans take days to weeks to fill. Sometime not at all. So it is the other way round - not enough investors or maybe not enough investors willing to part with their money. They also have a feature where an investor can come in and take the whole amount of loan (before it is filled) and kick out all the others. So far happen to only one loan where I pledge a few thousand$. By the way, minimum investment in a loan is $1000.

  6. #4131
    yeah, nah
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    Thanks CB, much appreciated. Certainly sounds less time consuming/stressful than other P2P models.

  7. #4132
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    Is the low volume of retail loans on Harmoney typical of this time of year, or is this much slower than normal? I've been sort of busy at work, so haven't been able to reinvest much, since everytime I check there are either no loans, or only rubbish I wouldn't go near.

  8. #4133
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    I don't even bother with Harmoney anymore, seems like all the good loans are being diverted to the wholesale market.

  9. #4134
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    Default definately reduction in loans

    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond47 View Post
    Is the low volume of retail loans on Harmoney typical of this time of year, or is this much slower than normal? I've been sort of busy at work, so haven't been able to reinvest much, since everytime I check there are either no loans, or only rubbish I wouldn't go near.
    It is very much reduced.

    The number of loans I invested in for one of my pooled fund:
    Jan2018 520 loans vs Jan2019 79 loans
    Feb2018 408 loans vs Feb2019 54 loans

  10. #4135
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    Been with Harmoney since the beginning but now had enough. The effort not worth it now but it has provided a nice supplement to bank term deposits over the time. In full withdrawal mode now for the last 6 weeks.
    Doing the same at Lending Crowd.
    Soolaimon

  11. #4136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soolaimon View Post
    Been with Harmoney since the beginning but now had enough. The effort not worth it now but it has provided a nice supplement to bank term deposits over the time. In full withdrawal mode now for the last 6 weeks.
    Doing the same at Lending Crowd.
    Hey @ Soolaimon > So what is your next investment strategy?

  12. #4137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saamee View Post
    Hey @ Soolaimon > So what is your next investment strategy?
    I have been at it for more than 50 years now, shares, bonds, cfds, options and P2P. Now moving to more cash ie. term deposits etc. One gets a little more conservative as one gets longer in the tooth.... and, it will take 5 years to wind up the P2Ps.
    Cheers.
    Soolaimon

  13. #4138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soolaimon View Post
    I have been at it for more than 50 years now, shares, bonds, cfds, options and P2P. Now moving to more cash ie. term deposits etc. One gets a little more conservative as one gets longer in the tooth.... and, it will take 5 years to wind up the P2Ps.
    Cheers.
    Good to hear back from you

    Cash at hand, in times like those quite likely coming is a good thing!

    This was a great read today > https://www.interest.co.nz/personal-...ft-tight-bunch

    I still feel P2P Investments will be safe in troubled time because our $$'s have already been spent by the Borrowers - It cannot be stolen or taken by the establishments!

  14. #4139
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    Just arrived in my inbox - a communication from harmony about their joining the investment group, using BNZ money - and we retail investors continue to get what we've always got.

    Yeah, right.

  15. #4140
    yeah, nah
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    There does now seem to be a real gap between what Harmoney say and what they do

    In the last 3 years the Retail:Institutional loan volume split has gone from 70% to 85% in favour of Institutions (note that this is a halving of the retail allocation). This last communication indicates that overall volume has increased - this is clearly not showing as available loans to retail lenders in practice. So where are all the additional loans going? From a retail investors point of view these details don't add up.

    It would be good to know how/why Harmoney allocate the split between retail and institutions as part of their "transparency of our platform", which they pride themselves on.

    I have noticed a rise in loan volume in the last week or so, but it is a long way from being half of the volume of say 6 months ago - especially if loan volume overall has increased... Is it still just the time of year! (hmm, perhaps that's worth plotting a volume over time graph for)...

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