Harmoney

[Knot]

Moi? Never

[Darchie]

I am TOTALLY and Utterly Divided at this point as to if I'll even continue with Harmoney .... their silence at this point in my view is doing MORE DAMAGE than good!
I keep telling myself they've cocked up Bigtime! And will realise what they've truly done and their workings of the new rates were in fact errors and the mistake should never of been released!
THEIR TOTAL SILENCE HERE. Smacks of Hiding from investors .... Well Harmoney ya gunna have to Front up SOON!
Do some damage control .....

[Saamee]

Some good news today!! TAX Certificates are available Online for Download

[IntheRearWithTheGear]

I look at it this way, i dont care what the returns are so long as they are better than my next option - which used to be serious saver accounts now roughly 2.75%.

We are free to take our money out and do with it what we please. In theory they simplifed the product they offer - no longer are they taking your capital but now they are taking part of your earnings. If you dont earn - they dont get paid - whats the problem with that ? Any current loan continue with current rules the new loans have new rules. As investors we are the seagulls at the rubbish dump - they could take everything all the way down to a percentage point above the next option - and still have my money.

By taking earnings versues capital - they allow themselves the ability to market to the borrowers more money, and at the end of the day - more money lent more interest received - so it kinda of a better approach.

Again risk v reward.

There maybe tax advantage to this approach - ie you have to have earned the interest to have it taxed, where as before you lose your capital.

as before at the a levels sombody could borrow and then pay back straight away - which would leave you with less captial than what you put in - this approach dosnt have that.

Im no expert - but i get the feeling people have a invidividual loan mentality as aposed to "portfolio" approach ie loan x defaulted i loose $25 - im gunn get my pitch forks out - i wanna know where the borrower lives. Its simply not worth it if you have diversified your loans and the amount you have in the system.

My approach - oh bugger another default oh well, still getting 14% across the other loans so not so bad, im not gunna cry over it.

I dont understand why people take large postions in loans ie more than $25 with small amounts of overall captial.

ie 1 loan default on $25 is 100% loss.

2 loan defaults on 4 loans at $100 is 50% loss

20 loan defaults on 500 loans 0.04% loss.

its a scaling game to a certain extent..


Ps when the NWO comes ( new harmony order) comes - i dont think we should be touching f5 loans ? anybody else getting that result ?

[Soolaimon]

Harmoney have certainly managed to stir this forum up this time. I have been with them since they started. Reason was that term deposit rates were tanking and I took it as a way to make up some of the shortfall. So far I am happy with results, I have gradually moved to less risky B loans and my RAR is running at 13.3% which you must agree is way more than the banks are giving. I have roughly calculated that, with the new fees my returns will suffer by $8 per month. (20k invested) Not a big problem.... Some, like me are also using Lending Crowd. I started with them 4 months ago and so far happy enough with the lower returns and extra security. However the loans there can be few and far between, the last gap was 8 days and the one listed today is filling very quickly. Although I was surprised at the amount of fee increase by Harmoney, for me, it is not the end of the world and I will probably keep re-investing paid-offs there and grabbing what I can on Lending Crowd and keep on complaining to my bank.

[Whippeedo]

Well said, I agree 100%

........Personally, I think Harmoney, until today, did a pretty good job. They've F****d up on this one big time and unless they can prove that this fee change isn't going to seriously affect our returns, I will be jumping ship.

[Whippeedo]

Well said. I agree 100%

I've got two issues 1) the size of the fee increase, and 2) the way it has been represented. The former is up to me to do something about, and I will be approaching the alternative providers. Here's my views on the latter.

The Dec 15 interest rate increases were done as part of their move from a variable/risk-adjusted fee to a flat fee, with the intention that borrowers paid around the same amount overall.

The theoretical example on their website uses interest rates from before the change, links/compares them with current interest rates, with the implication that the current fee change is related. I think that is pretty clearly misleading or deceptive. The Fair Dealing section of the FMC Act deals with "misleading or deceptive conduct".

Harmoney, you may wish to change the example otherwise I will complain to the FMA on Monday.

[Whippeedo]

In a private email a Harmoney Employee has told me that if they did not do this they would go bust.

Their fees were previously unsustainable low for Harmony at 1.25% P and 1.25%
E.g. @ $200mill lent they are only earning about $2.5mill in interest fees per year and lets say about $500K worth of P fees = about $3mill of revenue. Obviously not enough.

Now their fees are unsustainably high for Lenders @ 20% - 15 %
E.g. @ the same $200mill lent example they are now earning between $30mill and 40mill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Obviously enough to run the company but that increase is totally over the top and extortionate.

Wholy **** Batman...on this example they've gone from $3mill in fees to an average of $35mill in fees on the same amount lent.

So the next $200mill lent after the 16th June 2016 will increase fees for Harmoney by over 1000% compared with the first $200mill lent out

That is such a massive change. It only causes far more serious questions to be asked of Harmoneys management.

How could the initial fees be set so unsustainably low? What were they thinking to start with?

How could they correct this by over shooting by such a vast amount? Please show your working on this one.

The old bait and switch at play for sure here. Someone is taking the piss out of investors.

And this was done under the guise to align Harmoneys interests with investors. Big fat YEAH RIGHT to that.

A flat fee of 10% of interest earned is more than enough for Harmoney to run and make a good profit on.

You got way too greedy here. It just looks and sounds so bad to make such a big move like that.

Now who wants to join me to set up in competition to Harmoney. P2P lending without ripping off investors and ridiculous see-sawing fee structures.

[Broke]

I look at it this way, i dont care what the returns are so long as they are better than my next option - which used to be serious saver accounts now roughly 2.75%.

Serious Saver? thats prettymuch just my back-up funds incase i incur unexpected bills, at 2% net, thats just enough to cover inflation. Have you tried looking into Trusts? Some of them deliver 10% p.a. quite easily.. Not far off from HM and other p2p platforms. On a good note, , p2p is a very exciting vehicle for diversifying the portfolio

[Whippeedo]

I think you have taken too much gear in the rear

Do you work for Harmony?

Check your maths on your loan defaults percentages. 20/500 = 4% loss. not .04% big difference

The problem is rather obvious. fees have basically gone from 1.25% to 20%

That is like a loaf of bread going from $5 up to $80. How would you feel about that?

If you don't think that is a big rip off - good for you - You are in lala land or have too much money already.

No offence intended really. Just being cheeky