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Thread: Harmoney

  1. #2051
    yeah, nah
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    Just read your previous post about how you got 14%. Your numbers are wrong in my opinion.

    You make the assumption that all loans should be picked up by Auto-Lend - unless everyone has no criteria set, and everyone actually has auto-lend turned on, this can't happen! At a guess I would say that less than 14% of loans that go through match my criteria - this has nothing to do with Harmoney setting a percentage of Auto-Lend fulfilment.

    As I said, I've not seen any loans that match my Auto-Lend criteria not get picked up - acknowledging that I've not been involved long, but have been watching loans closely because I have the time at the moment. I would be surprised if Harmoney have this set much below 100% (if it's not set at 100%)!

    From Harmoney - How it Works:

    "Loans go through the Auto-Lend engine before they hit the Marketplace. This means that users of Auto-Lend do get priority over manual lending in the Marketplace. However, the percentage of each loan that can be fulfilled with auto-lend can be set to less than 100%. Harmoney will set it based on the demand for Auto-Lend vs manual lending."

    Bold added - makes logical sense to me.

    And from a blog post:

    "
    Here’s the key takeaway: you won’t always get a note in every loan that meets your criteria. When only a certain percentage of each loan can be filled with Auto-Lend notes, and a significant proportion of our Lender database using Auto-Lend, there aren’t always enough notes available in the loan to enable such a spread.But there’s a compounding factor here that many of the general public aren’t entirely aware of:"

    Which goes on to highlight peaks and troughs due to timing e.g. holiday periods etc.

    I really don't see low Auto-Lend pickups being driven by Harmoney - I believe it's driven by Lenders themselves.

  2. #2052
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    Quote Originally Posted by myles View Post

    ..... I would be surprised if Harmoney have this set much below 100% (if it's not set at 100%)!....
    I have observed that when most loans hit the market place they are about 13-15% full. So I assume they have been through the Auto-Lend allocator and are then available for general investment.

    Harmoney have a priority order based on Cash v Principal outstanding. Any loan set at 100% would never appear in the market place.

    I have been in a long time, have had many loans in my Auto-Lend filter that I did not get notes allocated, but these came into the marketplace about 15% allocated.

    I did a test recently and added enough cash to bring my ratio up to 18% ($ Bal. v Principal outstanding) but I still missed out on loans that appeared in my Auto-Lend filter.

    The problem as I see it; since Harmoney removed the limit on the number of notes that could be applied for in Auto-Lend from 4 to unlimited, some investors ask for many notes.

    I have even read on this forum some guy complaining that he couldn't get 30+ notes he applied for.

    Loans are now filled manually within seconds of hitting the marketplace. There are several thousand retail lenders now, so there is not enough to go around!

  3. #2053
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    Quote Originally Posted by permutation View Post
    I have observed that when most loans hit the market place they are about 13-15% full. So I assume they have been through the Auto-Lend allocator and are then available for general investment.
    I've seen only a small number in this range, most that I've seen are in the 80-90% full range when they appear in the market. As I've previously said I've seen one that was picked up by Auto-Lend that never got to the market i.e. 100% allocation.

    Harmoney do indicate that they "dynamically manages the proportion of loans that can be funded by auto-lend based on Lender demand and loan flow" and that the Auto-Lend fulfilment will be set "based on the demand for Auto-Lend vs manual lending.", so perhaps there is significant variance in this - it could be driven by the number of Lenders currently logged in (i.e. an indication of manual lending?), so could vary based on the time of day etc. Just guessing here...

    Quote Originally Posted by permutation View Post
    Harmoney have a priority order based on Cash v Principal outstanding. Any loan set at 100% would never appear in the market place.
    Assuming you mean 100% Auto-Lend fulfilment, then yes it could appear in the market place, if there aren't enough lenders with an Auto-Lend criteria that matches it - I suspect this happens more often than most think, but I am guessing.

    Quote Originally Posted by permutation View Post
    I have been in a long time, have had many loans in my Auto-Lend filter that I did not get notes allocated, but these came into the marketplace about 15% allocated.
    Not my experience so far, but I am new I wonder if they use 'banding' when they allocate Auto-Lending, i.e. if a group within a band can't all be allocated a note ($25), then none are, e.g. if 1000 lenders are all vying for a small loan (or portion left of a loan) - so 1000 x $25 = $25,000 and the loan (or portion left) is only $23,000... If they allocate one lender at a time based on Cash/Principle ratio, then this wouldn't apply. Do we know exactly how they determine this?

    Quote Originally Posted by permutation View Post
    I did a test recently and added enough cash to bring my ratio up to 18% ($ Bal. v Principal outstanding) but I still missed out on loans that appeared in my Auto-Lend filter.
    Sorry, my fault - being new I'm currently running at 50% (at one point 250%), so you've got no chance Point being, that if there is an influx of new users, or significant number of 'small' investors, it could have a large impact... Equally if a large investor is happy with say a 9% return, with a RAR of 13%, they could be sitting on around 30% cash/principle...lots of things can influence what drives Auto-Lending.

    Quote Originally Posted by permutation View Post
    The problem as I see it; since Harmoney removed the limit on the number of notes that could be applied for in Auto-Lend from 4 to unlimited, some investors ask for many notes.

    I have even read on this forum some guy complaining that he couldn't get 30+ notes he applied for.
    How is this different from having 30 investors of a single note in front of you in the queue? Just asking as I don't see why this is necessarily a problem, other than the higher risk for the lender of 30+ notes if it gets charged-off?

    Quote Originally Posted by permutation View Post
    so there is not enough to go around!
    Sounds like the core of the real problem...

  4. #2054
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    @myles - I haven't gone back to checking my wording, but I think the general intent of my comment that 14% of loans are being filled with auto-lending is right. I was meaning by value (hence my comment about $70k of $500k), not by number. But you're right that we don't know if that 14% is spread evenly across the loans because of individuals preferences.

    @permutation - I don't know their allocation process but I would hope that rather than give 30 to one person they shared it around eg. if two people want 30 each, but only 30 available, my preference would be for the two to get 15 each, rather than one gets all and the other none.

    Regarding the point about the number/value of loans, it would be interesting to know how that is moving. I assume the outstanding number/value is growing, but the interest paid graph seems to be quite close to a straight line, and the auto-lend volume looks constant, which suggests to me that the total value outstanding might be fairly constant, and new loans are just replacing loans that are being paid off.

  5. #2055
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi_on_OE View Post

    Regarding the point about the number/value of loans, it would be interesting to know how that is moving. I assume the outstanding number/value is growing, but the interest paid graph seems to be quite close to a straight line, and the auto-lend volume looks constant, which suggests to me that the total value outstanding might be fairly constant, and new loans are just replacing loans that are being paid off.
    Agree, the cumulative lending totals are growing but total outstanding loan balances seem to be stuck at about $250m. There is clearly a lot of churn.

  6. #2056
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    Could be just a matter of timing of the early loans starting to come to an end - the first 3 to 5 years are all growth, after that not so much - the timing is about right from when Harmoney started isn't it? No doubt there would have been a larger than normal influx early, which would now likely be more constant.

    There is a finite number of borrowers at any one time...

  7. #2057
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    Wow - 17 loans are live right now!! This is the first time I've seen this in quite a while, and a good range of them, too. I finally managed to get some notes invested.
    Last edited by darrenc; 07-04-2017 at 09:29 AM. Reason: A more astounding figure appeared

  8. #2058
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    19Days.png

    Just some numbers from a newbie:

    Days: 19
    Loans: 179
    Deposits: $13,200
    Invest: $10,900 (Principle: $11,004.08)
    Auto-Lend: 53
    Payment Protect: 30
    Principle Received: $3.57 (early payments)
    Gross Interest: $1.00

    That's about a 30% Auto-Lend ratio with close to 10 loans a day, 2 or 4 notes on most loans.

  9. #2059
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    Quote Originally Posted by myles View Post
    19Days.png

    Just some numbers from a newbie:

    Days: 19
    Loans: 179
    Deposits: $13,200
    Invest: $10,900 (Principle: $11,004.08)
    Auto-Lend: 53
    Payment Protect: 30
    Principle Received: $3.57 (early payments)
    Gross Interest: $1.00

    That's about a 30% Auto-Lend ratio with close to 10 loans a day, 2 or 4 notes on most loans.
    Thanks for sharing.

    Your cash to invested ratio is fast dropping and giving the rest of us a chance to get some notes through autolend.

    Autolend does favour newbies in that your invested amount is still growing. For a big investor with say $200,000 outstanding principal (eg the one with 10,000loans) to maintain even 5% means he/she has to leave at least $10,000 sitting idle as cash.
    Last edited by Cool Bear; 08-04-2017 at 08:24 AM.

  10. #2060
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    Big spike in the Auto-Lend graph yesterday and a big lump of loans going through - pre-Easter rush maybe?

    https://www.harmoney.co.nz/how-it-wo...d-volume-chart
    Last edited by myles; 08-04-2017 at 09:33 AM.

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