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Thread: Harmoney

  1. #2811
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    20% is year to date as stated. Last couple of years are similar however i agree it's short term in the scheme of things.
    My point was that I don't think the harmoney returns are that great for an unsecured investment, particularly now we have v1.5.
    Harmoney is returning 18% ytd for me, after tax...

  2. #2812
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    Quote Originally Posted by myles View Post
    Harmoney is returning 18% ytd for me, after tax...
    Wow, so your RAR must be ~26%? Well done. To be this high you must be invested in very low grade loans and either got lucky or have not been in for long enough to see the defaults come through - you need a couple of years.

  3. #2813
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    Wow, so your RAR must be ~26%? Well done. To be this high you must be invested in very low grade loans and either got lucky or have not been in for long enough to see the defaults come through - you need a couple of years.
    I agree. Even Smartshares MDZ has been doing better than Harmoney's platform RAR and investing in Smartshares passive funds takes a lot less time. To get anywhere close to 18% RAR on Harmoney you would need to invest in some very high risk (aka s*hitty) loans.
    That's just my 5c worth.

  4. #2814
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    Quote Originally Posted by icyfire View Post
    I agree. Even Smartshares MDZ has been doing better than Harmoney's platform RAR and investing in Smartshares passive funds takes a lot less time. To get anywhere close to 18% RAR on Harmoney you would need to invest in some very high risk (aka s*hitty) loans.
    That's just my 5c worth.
    wait til the market turns at smartshares does negative lol
    Harmoney from what I modeled would need a catastrophic default rate, like 40% of your portfolio or something

  5. #2815
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    Quote Originally Posted by alistar_mid View Post
    wait til the market turns at smartshares does negative lol
    Harmoney from what I modeled would need a catastrophic default rate, like 40% of your portfolio or something
    If Smartshares start going negative then the economy would have to slow down which means people would loose their jobs which will negatively impact Harmoney as well. It's all connected.
    The smart thing to do with shares is to not turn a paper loss into a real loss by selling them during a downturn.

    Most of the Harmoney loans don't really make logical sense. Why would someone who has a mortgage want to borrow $25k at 15% on Harmoney for Home Improvements when they could top up their existing mortgage at 6%. I see these loans on Harmoney daily. Did the bank turn them down because deemed too high risk? Or are these borrowers just silly?

  6. #2816
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    Quote Originally Posted by icyfire View Post
    If Smartshares start going negative then the economy would have to slow down which means people would loose their jobs which will negatively impact Harmoney as well. It's all connected.
    The smart thing to do with shares is to not turn a paper loss into a real loss by selling them during a downturn.

    Most of the Harmoney loans don't really make logical sense. Why would someone who has a mortgage want to borrow $25k at 15% on Harmoney for Home Improvements when they could top up their existing mortgage at 6%. I see these loans on Harmoney daily. Did the bank turn them down because deemed too high risk? Or are these borrowers just silly?
    your'e obv pretty out of touch with the average financial IQ of the average jabroni walking down the street!

    and your example is a little off... having your own mortgage etc you probably gonna be on 12-16% if you take a harmoney loan. the 25% are reserved for renting, not long in job, low income that sort of thing

  7. #2817
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    Quote Originally Posted by alistar_mid View Post
    your'e obv pretty out of touch with the average financial IQ of the average jabroni walking down the street!
    Since your financial IQ is so much higher than mine please enlighten us all with your knowledge by explaining yourself. After all, people come on this forum to learn from the smart people like yourself and not just read your insults.

    Quote Originally Posted by alistar_mid View Post
    and your example is a little off... having your own mortgage etc you probably gonna be on 12-16% if you take a harmoney loan. the 25% are reserved for renting, not long in job, low income that sort of thing
    My example was of an actual loan that was on Harmoney today. And read me question again: "Why would someone who has a mortgage want to borrow $25k at 15% on Harmoney for Home Improvements when they could top up their existing mortgage at 6%?"

  8. #2818
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    Quote Originally Posted by icyfire View Post
    Since your financial IQ is so much higher than mine please enlighten us all with your knowledge by explaining yourself. After all, people come on this forum to learn from the smart people like yourself and not just read your insults.


    My example was of an actual loan that was on Harmoney today. And read me question again: "Why would someone who has a mortgage want to borrow $25k at 15% on Harmoney for Home Improvements when they could top up their existing mortgage at 6%?"
    lmao, I didn't say you or me, I said the average person. No need to get offended cupcake.

    Quite often the average person will buy things on HP while having a mortgage they could draw down on or cash to pay for it, will buy things they don't need. Will get cars on finance when they could do it on their mortgage. And... will go and get p2p loans when they could use their mortgage. There could be any number of reasons why they do this.

    fwiw, I misread your 15% as 25% for some reason...

  9. #2819
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    20% is year to date as stated. Last couple of years are similar however i agree it's short term in the scheme of things.
    My point was that I don't think the harmoney returns are that great for an unsecured investment, particularly now we have v1.5.
    Anyone who thinks that a 20% return on equites is sustainable is living in cloud cuckoo land. Myles is right, you have to look at shares as a long term investment. For example in from my own experience for the year to 10th May 2006 my share investments made a whopping return of 39.6% but in the year to 28th October 2008 I suffered a calamitous loss of 42.2% on my portfolio. Over the last 15 years (which is the sort of time frame you should look at) I have made an average of 9.8% per annum after tax which is about what one would expect. Since the GFC low interest rates have created a huge asset bubble in shares and property; it is all going to come crashing but unfortunately I don't know whether it is going to happen next week, next year or in five years time. In the meantime one can only diversify, including Harmoney, and keep cash reserves to take advantage of the buying opportunities that the next GFC will bring. Sorry to be so gloomy.

  10. #2820
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    Quote Originally Posted by nztyke View Post
    Anyone who thinks that a 20% return on equites is sustainable is living in cloud cuckoo land. Myles is right, you have to look at shares as a long term investment. For example in from my own experience for the year to 10th May 2006 my share investments made a whopping return of 39.6% but in the year to 28th October 2008 I suffered a calamitous loss of 42.2% on my portfolio. Over the last 15 years (which is the sort of time frame you should look at) I have made an average of 9.8% per annum after tax which is about what one would expect. Since the GFC low interest rates have created a huge asset bubble in shares and property; it is all going to come crashing but unfortunately I don't know whether it is going to happen next week, next year or in five years time. In the meantime one can only diversify, including Harmoney, and keep cash reserves to take advantage of the buying opportunities that the next GFC will bring. Sorry to be so gloomy.
    You're not being gloomy but being realistic. You're quite right - the bust is coming but we don't know when. Never before have we seen quantative easing on such a grand scale. It's driving asset prices up but not workers' incomes. House prices, commercial property and shares are all driven up in value as a result of demand fueled by plentiful money to borrow at historically low interest rates. It all has to unwind sometime but it's never been done before so no one knows how to or what to expect.

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