CBL Insurance IPO

[BlackPeter]

This is equally amusing

Actuary Geoffrey Atkins, who reconstituted the company’s historical balance sheets based on analysis by actuarial firm Finity used in the RBNZ’s investigation.
Mr Atkins concluded CBL Insurance had been balance sheet-insolvent since 2013.

Impossible. The highly self praising audit and consultancy company Deloitte concluded still in 2017 that CBL's financial statements "represent fairly" the companies financial position (as at 31 December 2016).

Attachment 10148

And I guess these guys (and gals) claim to be really good - just citing from their webpage:

“Deloitte” is the brand under which tens of thousands of dedicated professionals in independent firms throughout the world collaborate to provide audit, consulting, financial advisory, risk advisory, tax and related services to select clients.

...

For us, good isn’t good enough. We aim to be the best at all that we do—to help clients realize their ambitions; to make a positive difference in society; and to maximize the success of our people. This drive fuels the commitment and humanity that run deep through our every action.

https://www2.deloitte.com/nz/en/page...-deloitte.html

Well, that's what the professionals say about themselves. Surely - not noticing the lacking of a couple of hundred million dollars would not be good enough - or would it?

Maybe time to put these guys on the never again list as well? Auditors should matter!

[trader_jackson]

I have heard things regarding some of the managers/directors pasts... lets just say I think they are "questionable" which is the reason why I'm not investing, unfortunately, because I did initially like it.

I am also a little worried why CBL are so "hell bent" to get itself listed while they know it is a volatile/tough market... if it was such a great company why not wait till early next year (only a couple months away...) when things have stabilized and therefore are able to receive a higher price and more capital (Yes I know they say "they are looking for long term investors and don't care about short term volatility" but this just doesn't wash with me...)

Anyway that's just some food for thought, because I don't "have a good feeling" about CBL (as a result of the above), I'm out.

And it (now) seems management had been telling porkies since well before I made this post in Sep 2015 (prior to listing). And here we are, barely 3 years later and CBL, and the $700m or so, is gone.

[Balance]

And it (now) seems management had been telling porkies since well before I made this post in Sep 2015 (prior to listing). And here we are, barely 3 years later and CBL, and the $700m or so, is gone.

Well done!

[moka]

The quotes that really make me laugh are

Chair of the EY judging panel said that Peter Harris was a “true master Entrepreneur”

The judging panel said that Peter Harris knew his business inside out and was very modest and had a good story to tell.

If CBL was insolvent since 2013 Peter Harris was quite an entrepreneur to get away with running a “successful” business all those years. And he was obviously good at telling a story.

I recently read a quote by the Dalai Lama “One problem with our current society is that we have an attitude towards education as if it is there to simply make you more clever, more ingenious.”
Clever in this context means to know how to work the system for your benefit, for self-interest. It is knowing how take advantage and exploit the opportunities, where someone else pays the price. And being clever is admired even when it involves dishonesty. The crime is being caught, not being dishonest.

We need to be better at recognising conmen. Here is a Youtube video of clever conman Frank Abagnale telling his story which was the subject of the film Catch Me If You Can. He posed as a pilot when he was still a teenager and flew over a million miles for free on airlines around the world as a passenger. Interesting that he looks a bit like Peter Harris and Bernie Madoff, not how I expect a conman to look and sound. Bernie Madoff was described as a very affable pleasant person to be around and his personality was cordial, friendly, and warm, but those characteristics helped him perpetrate his crime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsMydMDi3rI

[smartbomb]

Well, CBL did do a little bit of lasting good. A miniature version of this statue was also in the CBL boardroom in Shortland Place as well. I saw it many times when visiting from Sydney as we did business with CBL over a long time. I wonder where it is now?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/r...-for-World-Cup

[iceman]

Quite shocking reading in the NBR behind paywall today https://www.nbr.co.nz/story/el-toro-...gold-mine-deal

Reads like an episode of "Narcos" with drug trafficking, money laundering, gold mining in Peru and a missing USD 600,000 as a story line. I'm glad I was never a SH of CBL but the more one reads about the activity of this so called insurance company, the less faith one has in the monitoring of companies on the NZX. What an utter fiasco. Surely some of these guys will go to jail.

[Sideshow Bob]

Quite shocking reading in the NBR behind paywall today https://www.nbr.co.nz/story/el-toro-...gold-mine-deal

Reads like an episode of "Narcos" with drug trafficking, money laundering, gold mining in Peru and a missing USD 600,000 as a story line. I'm glad I was never a SH of CBL but the more one reads about the activity of this so called insurance company, the less faith one has in the monitoring of companies on the NZX. What an utter fiasco. Surely some of these guys will go to jail.

Maybe that was all part of why Peter Harris won Entrepreneur of the Year.....?

[hardt]

The DOCA alternative to liquidation for CBLI was agreed to by Korda-mentha, banks and creditors which stood to receive surpluses under the agreement. RBNZ were the only ones opposed to the DOCA regardless of the losses to creditors, policyholders and subsequently some of us on here.

RBNZ were lobbying those parties that agreed to the DOCA to change their position.
RBNZ even offered Alpha retention of the $40m payment made to it by CBLI in February so long as Alpha agreed to change sides and support the RBNZ.

The least respected regulatory body in NZ continues to deliver

All this being a dispute over CBL reserving:
Armour Re which now owns CBLI's largest creditor ( Elite insurance ), recently agreed to acquire CBLI's European reinsurance liabilities, agreeing with PWC's recommended reserving levels of $371.4m carried by CBLI in its balance sheet.
- the basis at which RBNZ claimed a solvent reserve level CBLI should be ( $600m OVER 50% more than PWC ) has been scoffed at by one of the most experience acquirers of reinsurance run-off portfolios in Europe.

[whatsup]

The DOCA alternative to liquidation for CBLI was agreed to by Korda-mentha, banks and creditors which stood to receive surpluses under the agreement. RBNZ were the only ones opposed to the DOCA regardless of the losses to creditors, policyholders and subsequently some of us on here.

RBNZ were lobbying those parties that agreed to the DOCA to change their position.
RBNZ even offered Alpha retention of the $40m payment made to it by CBLI in February so long as Alpha agreed to change sides and support the RBNZ.

The least respected regulatory body in NZ continues to deliver

hardt where did you find this gem ?

[BlackPeter]

The DOCA alternative to liquidation for CBLI was agreed to by Korda-mentha, banks and creditors which stood to receive surpluses under the agreement. RBNZ were the only ones opposed to the DOCA regardless of the losses to creditors, policyholders and subsequently some of us on here.

RBNZ were lobbying those parties that agreed to the DOCA to change their position.
RBNZ even offered Alpha retention of the $40m payment made to it by CBLI in February so long as Alpha agreed to change sides and support the RBNZ.

The least respected regulatory body in NZ continues to deliver

Hmm - yes, this is what Peter Harris seems to claim. Question is - can he be trusted? I heard from some other (in my view trustworthy) source close to the action a different version of the story.