How much capital do I need to retire comfortably on ?

[Beagle]

No one is suggesting that we stop looking after old people in fact the argument is how to make it sustainable so we can keep looking after old people not just for the current generation but future generations as well.

here is the link to todays Gareth Morgan article. Look forward to the solution tomorrow.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11466733

Morgan's credibility has really gone down the toilet with his eccentric campaigns against cat's and other eccentricities. He conveniently overlooks the family support system wherein we're paying young people including new immigrants to breed like rabbits and the moral responsibility of providing for one's own offspring is somehow completely irrelevant....go figure. These rampant breeders have often contributed little or nothing to the tax system in their 5 minutes of full time employment, if any. Just look at the incredibly serious social ands security problems they're having in England and France with the explosive growth of the Muslim population and to think we're supporting that with one of the most generous family support programmes in the world.

So many different angles and ways to peel this onion I'm getting dizzy so I think I'll leave it at that.

In conclusion, If people can't work out that at 65 you've earned the right to receive super by paying into the tax system for 50 years and that's what makes the difference compared to these Johnny come lately's who've barely contributed a red cent in their 5 minutes of contributions...honestly if people can't see there's a fundmental different then the cliché that readily springs to mind is "he gave them eyes but they will not see" I can't help blind people so won't bother trying anymore. I done with this.

[percy]

Even if really wishy washy well said Rosemary. She a good soul.

Taking money (the root of all evil anyway) out of the discussion just remind ourselves that one thing that has never really changed in society over the centuries is that the younger generations look after and take care of the old.

The challenge today for the younger generations is how that will continue to be, don't forget that one day you will be 'old'.

Again you are totally wrong.
The older our younger generation daughters get, the more they are costing us.!!!
"No,don"t give up work,you enjoy it , and what would you do all day?" both say/ask...!!! lol.

[winner69]

Again you are totally wrong.
The older our younger generation daughters get, the more they are costing us.!!!
"No,don"t give up work,you enjoy it , and what would you do all day?" both say/ask...!!! lol.

I agree Percy, children do seem to be and endless expense don't they. Like you I thought when they left home that's it. Lost track of how many cars Mum seems to have bought for them (always to be repaid I am told) and all that sort of stuff.

I look at it this way ..... I not really old yet .....but hope that when I am that enervation will look after us just as we looked after the oldies as well as the young uns. Maybe an investment in the future.

Do you part own any property with your kids or did you just give them the money?

[percy]

I agree Percy, children do seem to be and endless expense don't they. Like you I thought when they left home that's it. Lost track of how many cars Mum seems to have bought for them (always to be repaid I am told) and all that sort of stuff.

I look at it this way ..... I not really old yet .....but hope that when I am that enervation will look after us just as we looked after the oldies as well as the young uns. Maybe an investment in the future.

Do you part own any property with your kids or did you just give them the money?

Just give them the money.No loans,no interest,no family trusts.!!!.

[Beagle]

Just give them the money.No loans,no interest,no family trusts.!!!.

There are very sound and prudent reasons for the use of family trusts for example if your daughter meets a ratbag and they shack up together for 3 years and then he leaves he gets half what you've given your daughter as well as half her house.

[Aaron]

That was disappointing. No link yet but Gareth's suggestion to our problem was to stop old people voting or having some sort of competency test before being able to vote.(I may never vote again).
The important point in all of this is that no matter what I say on this site, it matters nought. We can have our say in the polling booth every three years and that is all that matters, in the words of Gareth Morgan.

"John Key, recognising that baby boomer votes were to remain a rich vein of electoral support until our large numbers started to die off, stopped that. Because of the intergenerational subsidy, Mr Key can count on our undying support until we are no more."

I would suggest we look to Greece as an example of what happens when you borrow for too long to pay "entitlements". If we see some pretty sad old Greeks on greatly reduced welfare on the news in the next few years keep in mind they had the good years and will only be reaping their rewards for their short sighted ways at the polling booth.

[winner69]

I part own a couple of properties I have 'funded'

Simple partnership agreement, main bit I get share of capital gains. Not fussed if they reneged on the interest/notional rent/outgoings bit - essentially it they pay the rates, insurance and maintain the place they get my part interest free.

The clever switched on one doesn't seem any point in repaying it, uses that money to buy investment properties.

If they don't like the arrangement no money I say. They soon come to their senses.

Dad still needs to mow the lawns and cut the hedge occasionally though.

[Bjauck]

Morgan's credibility has really gone down the toilet with his eccentric campaigns against cat's and other eccentricities.....

Even from the point of view of NZ's economy, Stephen Franks agrees with him...http://www.nbr.co.nz/opinion/gareth-...-kill-all-cats
I think one of Gareth Morgan's points was that society's wealth includes its environment too and that Aotearoa NZ's unique fauna has always been at risk from introduced predators, including the domestic moggy cat. NZ's unique fauna is one of our attractions to overseas tourists too.

My parents' cat on their lifestyle property on the city fringe often kills piwakwaka, riroriro, tauhou and even kotare (despite those dangerous looking beaks)! Though it does kill quite a few rats. So on balance, that particular cat probably contributes more to the native fauna population!

[Bjauck]

...
The clever switched on one doesn't seem any point in repaying it, uses that money to buy investment properties....

As you say that is what clever people do in NZ. They buy investment properties. The tax regime means that is the way to get good returns without paying much tax and bankers fall over themselves to lend money to property investors at good rates. Hence that is why house prices are so high in relation to our incomes as financially successful people in NZ see property as the way to grow their wealth - to a greater extent than investing in shares, businesses and other productive assets. A reason too for our stock market being comparatively small for the size of our economy?

[winner69]

Silly question bjauck - say if I buy 100,000 Fletcher Building shares from you is that investing in 'productive' assets? ....considering that Fletchers won't be getting that money.

I can see how putting cash into a business that uses that cash to make things is 'productive' but just buying shares in an existing business I don't get it