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  1. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Sounds like a huge disincentive to me - might as blow it now rather than poke it away into a savings scheme - either that or back to stuffing it under the mattress.
    Exactly. Why bust a gut and try to get ahead.Especially when the last “boomer” will retire in 2029.

  2. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Sounds like a huge disincentive to me - might as blow it now rather than poke it away into a savings scheme - either that or back to stuffing it under the mattress.
    Big difference between entitlement vs actual needs. I'm all for supporting the rise of the pension age and also 'income' tested, in a tax payer funded gov't pension scheme like our superannuation. It's also important to note that individuals living in NZ are completely unaware how the NZ pension is funded (as you say, "blow it now rather than poke it away into a savings scheme") ; it is not funded at the choice of each individual tax payer like it would in the case of Kiwi Saver. My Canadian belief states that a the gov't pension should only be treated as a "safety net" ; in Canada that's called OAS 'Old Age Security' pension. Furthermore, Canada's CPP is a nationwide pension scheme where the more you pay into it, the more you get back. However, clawbacks apply so to the person with high income, they lose a portion or all of it. Then there's RRSP (sorta like Kiwi Saver) where individuals choose where their savings are invested in (except it works on a deferred taxation as the funds grow 100% tax free until withdrawal; Kiwi Saver doesn't do that). Then you have the various private pensions such as Teachers Pensions, Auto Workers pensions, Trades Association pensions, etc. which is entirely separate to the gov't pensions. Yes Canada is spoiled with pension choices.

    Speaking of choices in Canada, has just revised it's FTSA savings scheme where the individual can invest up to $40,000 and grow it 100% tax free, and use it to buy a house at the end, 100% tax free, towards the purchase of their 1st home.

    https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-age...s-account.html

    and this is on top of TFSA (Tax Free Savings Account) where annual contribution limits are cumulative. As in the acronym, gains and dividends, withdrawals, are all 100% tax free. Here's my dad's TFSA i've been managing since the scheme started in 2009: (keep in mind, annually you're limited to only $5000/year to invest).

    https://i.imgur.com/vniwFw0.png

    I really don't understand why the NZ gov't does not provide any savings plans that target the needy? We have RDSP (Registered Disability Savings Plan) in Canada that give the disadvantage the tax free advantage. For NZ, there none of such kind... or any. But on the same token, it's ok for rich people to own multiple houses for over 10 years and pay no CGT whatsoever.

    Ok enough of my rants.

  3. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sideshow Bob View Post
    Exactly. Why bust a gut and try to get ahead.Especially when the last “boomer” will retire in 2029.
    I am not sure we can wait 6 years but suspect that we will.

    Why bust a gut indeed, why not work for cash and take the dole. I suspect because you are not a bludger with a hand out for welfare you do not need. Those sort of people are a small minority except when it come to nz super. I am not suggesting no one receives nz super only those who do not need it much like all other welfare payments.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money...-reviewed.html

    I hope your bed is a king size FP.
    Last edited by Aaron; 03-04-2023 at 07:12 AM.

  4. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    I am not sure we can wait 6 years but suspect that we will.

    Why bust a gut indeed, why not work for cash and take the dole. I suspect because you are not a bludger with a hand out for welfare you do not need. Those sort of people are a small minority except when it come to nz super. I am not suggesting no one receives nz super only those who do not need it much like all other welfare payments.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money...-reviewed.html

    I hope your bed is a king size FP.
    It is although not needed. However if they canned the super for those who have scrimped, saved and provided for themselves and paid it to those who pzzzed it up against the wall, I'd invest in an ultra king size plus mattress - thick size with side pockets.

  5. #575
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    Chris Trotter thinks Shamubeel is barking up the wrong tree and should cut out the inter generational nastiness.

    He points out the generation before his did the same thing as their super must have been more generous than the current scheme. Although he does not claim the current scheme is affordable he suggests it will top out soon at roughly 7-8% of GDP and that is better than Germany. I always like when comparisons with other countries are cherry picked to justify continuing with stupid or unaffordable policy. (Maybe we should have had a closer look at Sweden's covid response before the August 2021 lockdowns.)

    Chris is obviously a boomer but I agree we should not be fighting maybe we should compare our super scheme to Australia, who have means and asset testing as well as 10% Aussiesaver going for a number of years. Have people stopped trying to save in Australia and have they been disincentivised through poor policy decisions? What is the Aussie national super cost to the govt as a percentage of their GDP? Are they better or worse off than NZ?

    More importantly should we let them buy up the NZX as I still can't get a decent yield on commercial property but need to rely on Adrian Orr for capital gain instead?

    https://www.interest.co.nz/public-po...ation-villains

    Most of our politicians are Gen Xers but I suppose their voters are boomers.
    Last edited by Aaron; 03-04-2023 at 10:35 AM.

  6. #576
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    Gov't pension / superannuation should be means & income tested. The view that 'boomer's paid into it and therefore should be entitled to it is wrong. There were many years under John Key's National Party time that the Superannuation was not fully funded (a mistake losing out to valuable gains during that time).

    Away with the moaners. Those that choose to take financial matters into their own hand are the ones that stand to benefit the most. NZ must be the last country in the OECD where the gov't leads the people by holding their hand.

  7. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    Chris Trotter thinks Shamubeel is barking up the wrong tree and should cut out the inter generational nastiness.

    He points out the generation before his did the same thing as their super must have been more generous than the current scheme. Although he does not claim the current scheme is affordable he suggests it will top out soon at roughly 7-8% of GDP and that is better than Germany. I always like when comparisons with other countries are cherry picked to justify continuing with stupid or unaffordable policy. (Maybe we should have had a closer look at Sweden's covid response before the August 2021 lockdowns.)

    Chris is obviously a boomer but I agree we should not be fighting maybe we should compare our super scheme to Australia, who have means and asset testing as well as 10% Aussiesaver going for a number of years. Have people stopped trying to save in Australia and have they been disincentivised through poor policy decisions? What is the Aussie national super cost to the govt as a percentage of their GDP? Are they better or worse off than NZ?

    More importantly should we let them buy up the NZX as I still can't get a decent yield on commercial property but need to rely on Adrian Orr for capital gain instead?

    https://www.interest.co.nz/public-po...ation-villains

    Most of our politicians are Gen Xers but I suppose their voters are boomers.
    I had 1st hand experience with Ausi super and I liked it a lot. 10% employer contribution really adds up,. terrific salary sacrifice scheme in later years like wise really pays big , especially if you are on a higher income as it has a capped 15% tax. makes our super look vastly inferior. Ausi super makes a big difference to retirees that plan prior retirement , the caveat being it helps to be under the threshold which is not that high.
    Last edited by ynot; 03-04-2023 at 12:18 PM.

  8. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by ynot View Post
    I had 1st hand experience with Ausi super and I liked it a lot. 10% employer contribution really adds up,. terrific salary sacrifice scheme in later years like wise really pays big , especially if you are on a higher income as it has a capped 15% tax. makes our super look vastly inferior. Ausi super makes a big difference to retirees that plan prior retirement , the caveat being it helps to be under the threshold which is not that high.
    In Canada, employer / employee contributions to RRSP (paid into retirement plan), up to 18% of employee's income can be matched. Does the Australian super allow the individual's portion for contribution (ie 10%) to be deducted off the total taxable income? The deferral of that portion of income (put towards savings) is the key to lowering the amount of tax to pay in times where inflation is tough on the individual. A big difference to NZ where IRD has no such 'tax credit' scheme and instead, does the opposite with Kiwi Saver by taxing paper gains every year.

  9. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    In Canada, employer / employee contributions to RRSP (paid into retirement plan), up to 18% of employee's income can be matched. Does the Australian super allow the individual's portion for contribution (ie 10%) to be deducted off the total taxable income? The deferral of that portion of income (put towards savings) is the key to lowering the amount of tax to pay in times where inflation is tough on the individual. A big difference to NZ where IRD has no such 'tax credit' scheme and instead, does the opposite with Kiwi Saver by taxing paper gains every year.
    We are clearly behind late to the party in NZ with Kiwisaver and a number of other pension/super measures and incentives. With 'expectations' or a 'right' for many of retirement at 65, along with healthcare costs, demographics and life expectancy, Kiwisaver for many pay for a good overseas trip and that's about it. It certainly won't be enough to live on happily ever after.

    Clearly there needs to be more savings and also tax advantages to do so - so there is a runway into means tested state super, or similar.

    Problem is also the political will to raise the pension age, impose more costs on business (Left has no issues with this), lower tax take from Kiwisaver and have a meaningful plan. Some of these measures would be unpalatable to voters, some would be vote winners.....

  10. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    No welfare for the wealthy. Sounds sensible to me. How do we defeat the greedy boomers at election time to get this done.

    https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other...b9c03529&ei=13

    France must be a pack of lazy bastards looking at their reaction to raising the retirement age. Easy solution burn stuff and scream and shout like a kid having a tantrum.
    The really wealthy will of course be ok. It will be the moderately wealthy who have grafted and saved who would be most affected by means tested super.

    And those with demanding jobs can be burnt out by 62. Do they need an earlier even retirement age?

    The Modern French Republic is the result of people taking to the streets to overcome what they consider unfairness; NZ initially didn’t want independence, and is scared of changing its colonial flag let alone casting away King Charles. Therein lies a difference.
    Last edited by Bjauck; 03-04-2023 at 02:37 PM.

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