Black Monday

[Baa_Baa]

Everything you said correct except for the 'very successful' part.

These computers cannot beat a S&P500 index fund or 'the market' or funds that are totally run by them would be posting great records and attracting all the capital.

But yes I know what you mean, I read a whole book on high frequency trading, pretty awesome book too Michael Lewis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_Boys

Ok, maybe not 'very successful' against your criteria for success, but they still do it, I wouldn't know whether they're 'very successful' or not, but they still do it, so I assume they're more successful than not.

We're talking big money who move many millions every day, across all markets and instruments. They wouldn't keep doing it if it wasn't working for them, in aggregate. Point is, they do it, computers actively trade the markets, in real time, that a real person has next to no chance of reacting to, let alone beating. The bull****'s of this world skim off tiny profits or losses on the side, if it works for them, well good luck.

Life as a trader has become a great deal more complex and difficult to succeed at over the past decade or two, I gave it up (options trading) when I realised the competition wasn't human anymore. Doesn't matter how many screens you have Or hours in the day to actively monitor trade/market movements. Making a buck doing this is, well, pretty difficult, particularly if you have a computer against you.

Makes you wonder whether real people actually make any of the big money trading decisions anymore, other than us public folks who try to buy at the right time, make a bob, and sell at the right time. I'm talking about trading here, not my long term hold portfolio.

We're competing against machines already, that should give the professional traders like bull**** pause for thought, can they beat the machine? Yeah possibly if they're trading something that the machine isn't interest in. Especially when AI gets involved, which is already well proven to be able to absorb infinite data, continuously, and spew out 'decisions' about whether to buy or sell at that moment in time, or not.

Personally, I think the successful life of a flesh and blood market trader is limited, and becoming more and more compromised by the machines, whereas good sound FA analysis and decisions and some basic insights into whether an instrument is under or over valued by the market, are essential for medium to longer terms investment decisions.

Traders can have it to themselves, it's of no real interest to me anymore, expect for the tools that help with timing the buy or sell.

[bull....]

Everything you said correct except for the 'very successful' part.

These computers cannot beat a S&P500 index fund or 'the market' or funds that are totally run by them would be posting great records and attracting all the capital.

But yes I know what you mean, I read a whole book on high frequency trading, pretty awesome book too Michael Lewis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_Boys

actually jim symonds was probably better than buffett and he was a trader. in his short time as a trader before retiring he made many times more money than buffet did over a comparable period and we know buffet did better than the index
was done with machine's to the pioneer in ai trading

[SailorRob]

Ok, maybe not 'very successful' against your criteria for success, but they still do it, I wouldn't know whether they're 'very successful' or not, but they still do it, so I assume they're more successful than not.

We're talking big money who move many millions every day, across all markets and instruments. They wouldn't keep doing it if it wasn't working for them, in aggregate. Point is, they do it, computers actively trade the markets, in real time, that a real person has next to no chance of reacting to, let alone beating. The bull****'s of this world skim off tiny profits or losses on the side, if it works for them, well good luck.

Life as a trader has become a great deal more complex and difficult to succeed at over the past decade or two, I gave it up (options trading) when I realised the competition wasn't human anymore. Doesn't matter how many screens you have Or hours in the day to actively monitor trade/market movements. Making a buck doing this is, well, pretty difficult, particularly if you have a computer against you.

Makes you wonder whether real people actually make any of the big money trading decisions anymore, other than us public folks who try to buy at the right time, make a bob, and sell at the right time. I'm talking about trading here, not my long term hold portfolio.

We're competing against machines already, that should give the professional traders like bull**** pause for thought, can they beat the machine? Yeah possibly if they're trading something that the machine isn't interest in. Especially when AI gets involved, which is already well proven to be able to absorb infinite data, continuously, and spew out 'decisions' about whether to buy or sell at that moment in time, or not.

Personally, I think the successful life of a flesh and blood market trader is limited, and becoming more and more compromised by the machines, whereas good sound FA analysis and decisions and some basic insights into whether an instrument is under or over valued by the market, are essential for medium to longer terms investment decisions.

Traders can have it to themselves, it's of no real interest to me anymore, expect for the tools that help with timing the buy or sell.

Good Post, agree with it all, except we're not talking many millions, it's hundreds of billions (literally).

Then there is the dark pools that nobody outside can even see.

That book I read, the big banks were paying millions to have their servers located closer to where the cable exit was within a data centre, so they would have a fraction of a microsecond advantage over the competition.

It is a massive advantage to us though to have tens of thousands of people out there who believe they can make money off any chart anywhere at any time, as then their eyes off the ball and those of us that are concerned with what's happening on the field are better off.

No computer out there is studying the particular advantage of OCA's liabilities over a conventional capital structure I can tell you that.

[bull....]

market very nervous heading into big friday data

not helped by some banks in US in big trouble liquidity wise .... ill be watching real estate issue's ahead to for big trouble in some banks

have to remember in all history fed goes to something breaks

[SailorRob]

actually jim symonds was probably better than buffett and he was a trader. in his short time as a trader before retiring he made many times more money than buffet did over a comparable period and we know buffet did better than the index
was done with machine's to the pioneer in ai trading

Correct, Buffett acknowledges him as well, but no way he could do anything with a trillion dollars worth of assets. Not scalable and who knows the actual risks. Always going to have some pull it off.

[bull....]

Correct, Buffett acknowledges him as well, but no way he could do anything with a trillion dollars worth of assets. Not scalable and who knows the actual risks. Always going to have some pull it off.

yep the larger the sum of money you have the harder it is to make money short term. maybe why symonds retired ? buffet is the greatest long term investor without doubt

[nztx]

Lots of red out there for Friday so far .. what's going on ?

How many days is that .. is that thing beginning with R upon us ?

[Onemootpoint]

Lots of red out there for Friday so far .. what's going on ?

How many days is that .. is that thing beginning with R upon us ?

S&P dropped like stone. Banks taking the hit.

[bull....]

if your good at trading and young

9 March 2023
Graduate traders are earning salaries of as much as $400,000 straight out of school this is in Australia

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...&sref=6uww027M


check out the size and quantity of screens those young fella's sitting behind in the photo of big market making firm looks like 12 screens to me lol

[nztx]

Some pretty loud banging & clattering going on out there mid afternoon ..

I thought it was the thunderstorm that rolled through, then looked further at NZX
where all the rolling clattering and dipping was happening .. don't look too happy out there
now with large amounts of Recessionary Red engulfing things

Might be some juicy pickings some time soon if this continues ..