Black Monday

[ValueNZ]

What a load of tosh.
Why don't we go back to the Victorian era whilst we are at it? Send kids down pit.

Australia for years had a much higher minimum wage than NZ & it didn't hold them back.
NZ has recently just caught up with our trans Tasman neighours.

Minimum wage workers should not have their remuneration governed by the whim of the market & the most powerful.

They should instead have their wage determined by the government?

[Daytr]

QUOTE=ValueNZ;1006395]They should instead have their wage determined by the government?[/QUOTE]

It's not set by the Government, the minimum is, which has been the standard in the Western World for decades.

[ValueNZ]

It's not set by the Government, the minimum is, which has been the standard in the Western World for decades.

It's a price control and it's set by the government. It being a standard in the Western World for decades is totally irrelevant, unless you want to discuss the racist history of minimum wage laws?

[Daytr]

Hmmm I don't think so. Western World standards mean quite a lot.
Many things are measured this way, including credit ratings, trade agreements with other developed countries.

No I doubt I would want to discuss anything about race with you as if this is your attitude toward the vulnerable in our society, I would hate to think what other views you may have.

Let's stick to the markets shall we.

[ValueNZ]

Hmmm I don't think so. Western World standards mean quite a lot.
Many things are measured this way, including credit ratings, trade agreements with other developed countries.

No I doubt I would want to discuss anything about race with you as if this is your attitude toward the vulnerable in our society, I would hate to think what other views you may have.

Let's stick to the markets shall we.

If you think the pure fact that minimum wage laws have existed in the past in the western world means that we should have them today (which I dont), then you have to look at the history of the laws. The minimum wage in America was introduced in 1938 as a way of stopping black people from working for a lower wage than a white person. The theory being that employers would choose a white person over a black person if the black person wasn't allowed to work for a lower wage. Horribly racist stuff, that is in no way relevant today. What is relevant however is the fact that minimum wage laws cause inefficiencies within markets, and make poor and unskilled workers worse off.

[SailorRob]

If you think the pure fact that minimum wage laws have existed in the past in the western world means that we should have them today (which I dont), then you have to look at where it originated from. The minimum wage in America was introduced in 1938 as a way of stopping black people from working for a lower wage than a white person. The theory being that employers would choose a white person over a black person if the black person wasn't allowed to work for a lower wage. Horribly racist stuff, that is in no way relevant today. What is relevant however is the fact that minimum wage laws cause inefficiencies within markets, and make poor and unskilled workers worse off.

Exactly. As with all misguided leftist ideology, cranking up the minimum wage will hurt the working poor far more than it will help them.

Raising the minimum wage just makes all the necessities that the minimum wage earners need to buy more expensive, and also will cut people out of a job who would otherwise be prepared to work for less. It also encourages automation and businesses to find any way to get rid of employees altogether. Fine in a tight market like this but this ain't normal.

The best way to improve the lot of the working poor is to produce more goods and services, improve productivity.

Raising the minimum wage means they have more money but can buy less stuff for it. It will destroy the productivity of the economy and make marginal businesses close down thus reducing the amount of goods in the economy if nobody more efficient takes up the resources.

Australia can afford to have half the population on a benefit (artificial wage) as they just dig another hole somewhere and export to China. We don't have that luxury.

[Panda-NZ-]

Exactly. As with all misguided leftist ideology, cranking up the minimum wage will hurt the working poor far more than it will help them.

It actually should be much higher, wages should follow productivity increases and they really haven't (even with NZ's flat rate of improvement in productivity).

Workers have been ripped off for decades.

[Daytr]

I always find it quite incredible that wealthy people think they no best for the blue collar worker. It's like men thinking they know best for women...

Lucky we have a democracy which will never allow such I'll advised & unsavory policy to see the light of day.

Interesting take you have on the minimum wage in the US ValueNZ. Stating that it was introduced to prevent Black people from working for less than white. Like they had a choice.
The correct way to look at it is it was to prevent employers taking advantage of black people and pay them the same as everyone else.

Here is a chronicle of the history of the minimum wage. I didn't realise NZ was the first country to implement one in 1894. Something to be proud of.

It also refers to the 1938 US example and from what it says it was more about protecting women & children than black people. I really wonder what you are reading to arrive at such distorted views.

https://www.ilo.org/global/topics/wages/minimum-wages/definition/WCMS_439071/lang--en/index.htm#:~:text=In%201938%2C%20following%20an%20 initiative,instituted%20a%20federal%20minimum%20wa ge.

[Panda-NZ-]

Interesting take you have on the minimum wage in the US ValueNZ. Stating that it was introduced to prevent Black people from working for less than white. Like they had a choice.

It was implemented during the worst of economic times too. It should have been carnage with all those employers unable to afford to take people on & fire even more people.

Instead it was entirely the opposite.

[SailorRob]

It actually should be much higher, wages should follow productivity increases and they really haven't (even with NZ's flat rate of improvement there).

Workers have been ripped off for decades.

Why don't you tip minimum wage workers then Panda?