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Thread: Black Monday

  1. #3581
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    Quote Originally Posted by bull.... View Post
    greens will never go with national this election they campaigned against them, it would destroy there party and the media and national just whipping up a story about nothing or some other motive.

    so the only option is who winston chooses.

    if you look back at the history of mmp if you take out the back stabbing and walking the plank under shippley ( who by the way was useless ) it would have been stable govt with boldger and winston , helen clark and winston was stable govt its just a media whip up of BS about winston causing chaos ( the dollar pretty stable , sharemarket good all these dont point to markets being fazed who he picks as both offer stable govt ) .... just stating the facts in my opinion
    I agree, the problem both times has been that he's come in at the tail end of a governments natural life and propped them up. But assuming he's thinking of retirement then it's a question of how much he cares about what happens to the party when he's gone. In that regard I suspect he sees Shane Jones as his successor, capable of working either side. But does he give Shane a better chance to succeed by working with Labour\Greens, or with National. I suspect initially at least probably not National.

  2. #3582
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    Quote Originally Posted by mondograss View Post
    I agree, the problem both times has been that he's come in at the tail end of a governments natural life and propped them up. But assuming he's thinking of retirement then it's a question of how much he cares about what happens to the party when he's gone. In that regard I suspect he sees Shane Jones as his successor, capable of working either side. But does he give Shane a better chance to succeed by working with Labour\Greens, or with National. I suspect initially at least probably not National.
    if shane jones is the successor one day then the port move would have to be an absolute bottom line?
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  3. #3583
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    Quote Originally Posted by bull.... View Post
    if shane jones is the successor one day then the port move would have to be an absolute bottom line?
    Almost certainly. Labours policy I think is to develop a National Port Strategy rather than to explicitly tell Auckland to move the port, but that could be used to influence the decision and they would probably agree in the interim to doing the rail line to Marsden as long as they could get good high speed passenger services to Whangarei as well (just an extension really of their policy to develop high speed rail through the golden triangle of Auckland-Hamilton-Tauranga). Once you have the rail line in place (or at least on the books), then the business case to move the port becomes somewhat stronger. Add in the influence of Goff on the Auckland council and I think it's a much easier policy to swallow for Labour than it is for National.

  4. #3584
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    Quote Originally Posted by mondograss View Post
    Almost certainly. Labours policy I think is to develop a National Port Strategy rather than to explicitly tell Auckland to move the port, but that could be used to influence the decision and they would probably agree in the interim to doing the rail line to Marsden as long as they could get good high speed passenger services to Whangarei as well (just an extension really of their policy to develop high speed rail through the golden triangle of Auckland-Hamilton-Tauranga). Once you have the rail line in place (or at least on the books), then the business case to move the port becomes somewhat stronger. Add in the influence of Goff on the Auckland council and I think it's a much easier policy to swallow for Labour than it is for National.
    I am sure Geoff would love to lose Ports of Auckland as ratepayer and as big contributor to the Auckland budget as well as one of the largest employees in Auckland. This is clearly a policy any Leftie will jump on - less income and more unemployed people for the town. Great - let's do it!

    Just in case you missed the sarcasm ... I know that some politicians are stupid, but not even I would think that Labour is that stupid ... do you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    I am sure Geoff would love to lose Ports of Auckland as ratepayer and as big contributor to the Auckland budget as well as one of the largest employees in Auckland. This is clearly a policy any Leftie will jump on - less income and more unemployed people for the town. Great - let's do it!

    Just in case you missed the sarcasm ... I know that some politicians are stupid, but not even I would think that Labour is that stupid ... do you?
    why couldnt the 2 ports merge? no one loses any money as shareholding would be relative and the combined port would actually make more money ( divs to ak council and free up all that port land to lease for development providing more revenue stream to ak council).
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  6. #3586
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    Quote Originally Posted by bull.... View Post
    why couldnt the 2 ports merge? no one loses any money as shareholding would be relative and the combined port would actually make more money ( divs to ak council and free up all that port land to lease for development providing more revenue stream to ak council).
    No matter how you construct it ... Auckland might be able to keep some of the divvies. However - if you move the port 170km or so northwards than Auckland will lose the rates - and it will lose the employment. Great recipe for any mayor and government to lose in the next election, but this is what Winnie is best in when he tries to govern (lose at the next election). Problem is just that some voters have to short memories, otherwise we wouldn't have the problem we have now.

    Anyway - I reckon his last dance - let's enjoy it and worry about the bills we will have to pay for his idiocies a bit later. It is still funny to see how everybody queues up to become his puppet - and interesting to see how he pulls the strings.
    Last edited by BlackPeter; 02-10-2017 at 11:17 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    No matter how you construct it ... Auckland might be able to keep some of the divvies. However - if you move the port 170km or so northwards than Auckland will lose the rates - and it will lose the employment. Great recipe for any mayor and government to lose in the next election, but this is what Winnie is best in when he tries to govern (lose at the next election). Problem is just that some voters have to short memories, otherwise we wouldn't have the problem we have now.

    Anyway - I reckon his last dance - let's enjoy it and worry about the bills we will have to pay for his idiocies a bit later. It is still funny to see how everybody queues up to become his puppet - and interesting to see how he pulls the strings.
    ak gets rates from new tenants on the waterfront and theres plenty of jobs in ak for people who wouldnt want to relocate, dont forget the jobs and business that start up in whangarei etc provide jobs in the up nth and if you develop the horticulture industry and forestry more up nth it would actually be closer to port ,,, everyone seems to be crying over there car imports lol
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  8. #3588
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    Quote Originally Posted by bull.... View Post
    greens will never go with national this election they campaigned against them, it would destroy there party and the media and national just whipping up a story about nothing or some other motive.

    so the only option is who winston chooses.

    if you look back at the history of mmp if you take out the back stabbing and walking the plank under shippley ( who by the way was useless ) it would have been stable govt with boldger and winston , helen clark and winston was stable govt its just a media whip up of BS about winston causing chaos ( the dollar pretty stable , sharemarket good all these dont point to markets being fazed who he picks as both offer stable govt ) .... just stating the facts in my opinion
    the pressure is mounting:

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-...es-open-minded
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  9. #3589
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    lol never happen this election
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  10. #3590
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    PoAL isn't the big employer it once was, and the more they automate the less it will be. A lot of the logistics workforce is moving outside of the port footprint at inland terminals etc, none of which really changes if you move the port.

    Bull is right, there'd be plenty of more productive things that could be done with that land, it's not exactly making a huge return as it is. Plus just fundamentally the port will one day have to move, it's a matter of when not if. So you spend a lot of money building a new port and associated infrastructure somewhere near Kawakawa Bay, or Manukau Harbour. Or you use Northport. That's basically the choice, you can sneer at it all you like BP, but those are the options. Status quo is not one of them.

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