Black Monday

[Getty]

Well, hoop, you and Bull are dancing in a circle. You are saying we are in an economic recovery, interest rates are going up in response.... Bull is saying we are in a recession but interest rates are going up anyway because US interest rates are going up. You have both arrived at the same place but it was an awkward tango to watch. The secret to an artful dance is to be in step at every turn.

https://youtu.be/WJ_IRK944YY

[Ferg]

Amusing to see the property investment class out in full voice having a grizzle after 12 months of outrageous capital gains and cheap credit, it is still not enough.

Amusing to see sycophantic apologists for badly designed policy.

If you are assuming I hold investment property then you have assumed incorrectly. I am more than capable of spotting bad policy without being a landlord. Maybe you think we should suspend "tax loopholes" or "tax benefits" for transport companies who get a tax deduction on their fuel costs, given that is bad for the environment? Where does this bad sort of policy stop? Should rich people not get tax deductions because it's not fair poor people spend a greater proportion of their income on essentials? I could go on. The solution around deductibility does not solve the problem, because the problem has not yet been correctly defined. In other words, Labour have done zero work or research in this area since they got into power, as evidenced by badly thought out policy and the lack of consultation with Treasury and IRD.

[McPussPuss]

I agree that the policy will not really achieve much and there will be unintended consequences (eg justification for the RBNZ to keep interest rates low which the NZD sniffed out immediately).

No political party will be able to grapple with the main driver of the bubble which is the global monetarist socialism experiment; centrally controlled interest rate suppression masking risk and causing malinvestment.

I do enjoy seeing a grenade lobbed into the darling investment class that has been bestowed with decades of artificial tailwinds to the detriment of the real economy.

[Panda-NZ-]

Is deductibility for interest the international norm or not?

The UK is limiting it even for business purposes which is a bad policy. Though for property it is not.

Capital gains tax free plus interest deductibility is a free ride.

[winner69]

Encouraging property speculators to be become share market speculators should be good for the nzx

[Balance]

Encouraging property speculators to be become share market speculators should be good for the nzx

Not going to happen in a big hurry with IPOs like MFB?

The IPOs of the energy companies during Key’s tenure should have done a lot to encourage all NZers to become share investors - but did they?

[dobby41]

Is deductibility for interest the international norm or not?

The UK is limiting it even for business purposes which is a bad policy. Though for property it is not.

Capital gains tax free plus interest deductibility is a free ride.

Good point

[Biscuit]

.....Why not extend an inflation allowance to the owners of fixed interest investments too for the inflation component of their return?

I think we are never going to agree on this Bjauck, as we seem to look at this from opposite perspectives. Private property ownership as the cornerstone of our society, its why our farms are productive, its why our businesses are competitive, its why you can go and rent a house if you don't own one yourself. Why would you "extend an inflation allowance" to fixed interest assets? No one is being asked to pay a capital gains tax on fixed interest assets, are they?

[Onion]

I think we are never going to agree on this Bjauck, as we seem to look at this from opposite perspectives. Private property ownership as the cornerstone of our society, its why our farms are productive, its why our businesses are competitive, its why you can go and rent a house if you don't own one yourself. Why would you "extend an inflation allowance" to fixed interest assets? No one is being asked to pay a capital gains tax on fixed interest assets, are they?

Yes, capital gains on sale of fixed interest securities are taxable. Losses are deductible. See IRD form IR3K.

[Biscuit]

Yes, capital gains on sale of fixed interest securities are taxable. Losses are deductible. See IRD form IR3K.

Where capital gains tax is being applied, I totally agree there should be an "allowance for inflation".