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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    I´m sure he can. Roger is a valuable poster although I do not agree with his view on HNZ. But I sincerely hope he has not been banned this time for anything he has posted on this thread as it seems to me that his recent posts are simply his views and comments put in a non offensive way. Surely he has been banned for comments elsewhere !?
    I got stood down for a week in August wasn't really sure why but didn't get too upset was lying on a Indonesian beach and being warm!

  2. #17
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    Stating a view that is contrary to the popular view is not 'arguing'. Many of those posts are valuable contributions.

    All insights should be welcomed which will enrich our knowledge of the company - that's the basis of good fundamental analysis

    What any individual does with those insights is their choice. They may care to ignore them but please let others take them on board if they think them worthwhile. Not having these discussions will deprive them of that knowledge.
    Last edited by winner69; 04-12-2015 at 08:58 PM.
    “In a roaring bull market, knowledge is superfluous and experience is a handicap.”

    –Benjamin Graham”

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    Stating a view that is contrary to the popular view is not 'arguing'. Many of those posts are valuable contributions.

    All insights should be welcomed which will enrich our knowledge of the company - that's the basis of good fundamental analysis

    What any individual does with those insights is their choice. They may care to ignore them but please let others take them on board if they think them worthwhile. Not having these discussions will deprive them of that knowledge.

    Ditto mate!!. I don't understand, no one offended anyone. If it continues i don't think the site will last long!

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    Stating a view that is contrary to the popular view is not 'arguing'. Many of those posts are valuable contributions.

    All insights should be welcomed which will enrich our knowledge of the company - that's the basis of good fundamental analysis

    What any individual does with those insights is their choice. They may care to ignore them but please let others take them on board if they think them worthwhile. Not having these discussions will deprive them of that knowledge.
    Well put winner, censoring discussion and debate will end ST. We don't want it to end do we.

  5. #20
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    Has there been an incident or a scenario where our ST MOD explained why someone is banned? Otherwise, I say that ST MOD is either of the accounting and/or auditing profession and got tickled badly when PT and Roger were questioning about accounting/auditing procedures Yeah, banning both sane and prolific contributors for something so trivial to me is hard sometimes to comprehend.

  6. #21
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    Yes RGR367 I would have hoped (and still do) that with the numerous posters voicing their concern and disagreement with these decisions, that an explanation and reconsideration maybe forthcoming. I hope the moderators reevaluate their decision.

  7. #22
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    There have been times I've felt I have probably pushed some boundaries but still haven't earnt myself a ban yet. What they posted most likely really pushed the Mods buttons. I suppose we have to remember this forum isnt a democracy and we are here as guests of the forum owners. Out stay our welcome and theres going to be a consequence. Is there a guide on what activity earns what type of ban? Defamatory posts, abuse of Members, abuse of Mods/ Owners, profanity earn what sort of ban? Do you get a warning shot across the bow before a ban? One month seems like quite a long time, what about PT? Seems like BFM did something outrageously bad since he seems to be gone forever.

  8. #23
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    To be fair,Ive been banned and did get a reason so guess its not all the ''what for'' scenario--I personally think there are occasions when the back and forth does get sidetracked a bit--me incl.
    I personally feel pretty much anything is fair game about a particular company ,especially if many have been let down,but attacking posters should have some limits. We have all seen situations where it seems those limits have not really been reached,but unless we all want to pay a membership fee and start our own,its ''Cest La Vie''
    I do think however that if people are going to state their views ,they should stay,not erased if a poster decides to call it a day(sometimes to return as new posters)--It screws up threads and may encourage some to think before posting.
    IMO its all about attachment--the more attachment ,the more emotion--this is hard to avoid if you become the ''spokesman'' for a company. Some companies have got a sweet deal with all that free work done for them in the form of research and PR.
    Having said that,
    Roger and PT certainly dont spring to my mind when I think of trouble makers

    PS -I dont think posters who have left have always done so because of bans--Many times it could have been more for the same reason the bans happened (or heaps of other reasons)
    Last edited by skid; 05-12-2015 at 01:44 PM.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim23 View Post
    I got stood down for a week in August wasn't really sure why but didn't get too upset was lying on a Indonesian beach and being warm!
    Yea they shouted me a trip to Indonesia as well--They did all banned members didnt they?

  10. #25
    Senior Member Halebop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    ...I suppose we have to remember this forum isnt a democracy and we are here as guests of the forum owners. Out stay our welcome and theres going to be a consequence...
    The flipside is the owners will receive no value if the contributors and readers stop coming. I personally like the debates, they make me think. Even the heated ones don't worry me as long as they play the ball and don't get too personal.

  11. #26
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    Oh dear - how do you start a post on the sad news that Roger and Paper Tiger have been banned?

    Maybe like that:

    (1) It is good that this forum is moderated. Operating on forums without moderation feels like Wild West - a killer (or at least a troll) can wait behind every tree. Given that the human species produces unfortunately a certain percentage of highly unpleasant people who thrive on bullying, harassing and annoying others (particularly if they can do this under the cloak of anonymity) am I glad that STMOD tries to protect us to a certain degree against these people.

    (2) I don't think that STMOD has an easy life ... and it is unlikely that they have the time to assess every post in context. I assume as well that they mainly read posts which are flagged to them. The result is that some people get away with bad behaviour (not everybody flags every slightly abrasive post) and others might get time for something others get away with. I am rather sure that STMOD tries to do their best, but I don't think that he / she / they have the time and resources to be absolutely fair (and hey - this is a free forum, i.e. we users don't even pay for this service ...).

    (3) I consider both Paper Tiger as well as Roger as extremely valuable contributors to this forum. I did read the last pages of the HNZ thread (which I assume are the reason for the bans) - and have no view on the arguments (don't hold, i.e. quite relaxed). I think I could see a bit more emotion than normally in at least one of PT's posts (though there are many posters who regularly get away with more ...) and yes, Roger was somewhat pointed towards the Tiger. Probably a bad day (some days it is better not to post or to review the post before pressing the post button).

    (4) Personally - I value both of them very high as contributors of this forum ... and am glad to see that PT is back. I hope as well that Roger can come back (and still wants to come back) ... and I am sure, that these two can sort out any remaining differences without the need for bans. Could we get them to start a "restorative justice" process (I know, they are somewhat distant to each other ... otherwise a beer or two could help) and just report back?

    (5) And if I have (one or two or three ...) free wishes to the moderator before being banned myself for speaking out ...

    * it would be great if we could use the measure of banning sparingly ... and preferably at least initially only for short periods. Many of the banned posters I remember over time used to add a lot of colour and valuable information. Glad that many returned, though unfortunately some didn't

    * I have seen in other forums (e.g. hotcopper) that moderators briefly explain to the forum the reason for pulling posts and for bans. I think this would be a great idea, if we could implement that here as well. It would help everybody (highly educational) and might reduce the need for future bans.

    * Now this one is difficult and obviously based on pure speculation ... but as indicated earlier - I assume that STMOD becomes mainly active when posts are reported. Just wondering - we probably all remember some kids at school who liked to sneak something to the teacher. Obviously this activity can reflect on a true grievance - but it might be as well the desire to control the activities of others ... and if some posters don't like the arguments of others, than they might use STMOD the same way they used to use their teachers previously. Just wondering, whether this was what happened on the PEB thread and now on the HNZ thread? I can't really imagine that either PT or Roger (the only ones effected in this case) did complain to the moderator (but who am I to know). Would be a pity if we have a snitch or two in the forum ... but maybe something the moderator might have an eye on. Its not always the child snitched on who caused the problem ...

    OK - so if STMOD still sees me fit to continue ... I actually do like this forum - and I hope that we all can soon enjoy again not just PT's but as well Rogers posts.

    Ah yes - and again ... Thank you STMOD for doing this unloved job ... its one of these things - we need it, but it is impossible to make everybody always happy!
    ----
    "Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" (Niels Bohr)

  12. #27
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    A great post BP and I suspect it fairly sums up how many of us feel. I definitely agree with all of it.
    It is important to acknowledge that this is indeed a free site and the moderators have a difficult job that needs to be rspected. But I sincerely do hope we get both the posters in question back pronto.

  13. #28
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    BP - you used snitch, a word I haven't seen for years

    I snitched yesterday

    For the first time ever I used the Report Post button. Yes I snitched

    The post (on this thread) I snitched on was the most vitriolic personal attack on a fellow forum member I have seen. It really was bad

    Fortunately it was taken down, presumably by an admin person because my post suggesting the poster himself delete it was also deleted.

    If I ran this site I would have banned the poster for good. But he seems to have got off scot free as his guru status remains intact

    At least being a snitch meant who the post was aimed at didn't see it.
    “In a roaring bull market, knowledge is superfluous and experience is a handicap.”

    –Benjamin Graham”

  14. #29
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    Right now there's about 4x as many viewers on ST as members.

    That's consistent with my observations, sometimes that ratio is a lot higher, but around 4-5 times viewers to members on a thread is typical. Taking into account that some much smaller proportion of members actually post stuff, then combined, the non-posting members and the viewers make up the vast proportion of those who 'use' ST. They must see some value in it ... so where is the value? It must be from those who post stuff here, otherwise where else could it be? Nowhere. The value comes from those who post.

    The point of this is that by banning those in the small proportion of members who actually post, and when those members are generally unselfish contributors, and some who are just plainly enlightened and capable investors, then the risk is that those members vote with their delete button and exit ST, some taking all their posts with them (actually they have to ask the STMod to delete them and their posts, but you get the point).

    Then of course ST's value diminishes accordingly. So it must be a very fine line between ST allowing free speech, albeit at times with baiting, vitriol, repetition, argument, ramping, down ramping, etc ... and all the other no-no's, thereby strictly banning the much smaller minority of posters who actually bother to share what they choose to share.

    Amongst those small minority who do have the quals and willingness to share, there are the gems that keep bringing us all back to ST. Let's not ban them too quickly, or for too long, or the 'royal we' will quickly find other avenues to discuss our passion for investing. And there are many alternatives.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post

    If I ran this site I would have banned the poster for good. But he seems to have got off scot free as his guru status remains intact
    .
    To save my good name being dragged in the mud it wasn't me!

    Edit: Can I add Couta's name to the list. i miss his advice.
    Last edited by minimoke; 06-12-2015 at 09:49 PM.

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