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Thread: New Forum Rules

  1. #1
    The approachable Admin Guy

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    Exclamation New Forum Rules

    Ok, so obviously we need some new rules around posting etc.

    I invite members to post here some rules they would like to give a definitive as to what is right & wrong, what will get you a warning and what will get you a temporary banning and a permanent one.

    What I'm looking for is you guys make the rules and you guys abide by them, - just the set of golden rules with nothing too long-winded.

    Regard's,
    Vince

    P.s - Keep this thread about the rules and nothing else please!

  2. #2
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    OK. I'll get the ball rolling.

    No personal abuse of a Member including the use of expressions of bigotry, racism, sexism, hatred or profanity.

    No providing of information which could be construed as financial investment advice under (What ever Act)

    No bringing the reputation of the Shareholder Forum, its owners, Members, Administrators Moderators etc into disrepute, including the making of defamatory statements

    No spruiking stuff

    No telling tales unless it is breach of one of these rules.

    No grumbling, moaning whinging about anything related to this forum.

  3. #3
    The approachable Admin Guy

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    Thanks Minimoke!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    Thanks Minimoke!
    Reinstate all banned members.
    Second Chance
    No Trolling
    Also
    Thumbs Up Thumbs Down Excessive thumbs down 1 week ban/2 week ban/ Bye byes 1 year
    Stock Held Yes NO and Sentiment
    Buy Hold Sell

  5. #5
    always learning ... BlackPeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    OK. I'll get the ball rolling.

    No personal abuse of a Member including the use of expressions of bigotry, racism, sexism, hatred or profanity.

    No providing of information which could be construed as financial investment advice under (What ever Act)

    No bringing the reputation of the Shareholder Forum, its owners, Members, Administrators Moderators etc into disrepute, including the making of defamatory statements

    No spruiking stuff

    No telling tales unless it is breach of one of these rules.

    No grumbling, moaning whinging about anything related to this forum.
    Think I could live with these rules ...

    Propose to add something related to openness / transparency / disclosure:

    - disclosure required for posters with admin / moderator rights & conflict of interest resolution process (moderators who are as well posters are only able to penalise posters if they are impartial in the related discussion) - a simple referral process should solve this.

    - Every moderator has a unique ID (based on my understanding that STMOD might be a number of people)

    - long term bans (more than some days) can be appealed. Appeal process as proposed by Birman boy (e.g. referral to a panel of say one moderator and 2 or 3 posters excluding the moderator who decided about he original ban)

    ... and I'd like a clear escalation process like e.g. proposed by miner (starting with warning / short ban (days) and only if this does not work, long ban (months). permanent ban in my view only for repeat offenders (3 strikes) and really bad behaviour

    agree as well with BirmanBoy's proposal that Moderators should explain the reason for any warnings / bans by referral to the respective (violated) rule.
    ----
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  6. #6
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    Expected disclosure of related party interests or significant conflict of interest (i.e. other than minority shareholder <5% retail investor)

  7. #7
    The approachable Admin Guy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minerbarejet View Post
    No Trolling
    Also
    Thanks Minerbarejet, - care to define you understanding of trolling to make it clear.

    Vince

  8. #8
    The approachable Admin Guy

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Think I could live with these rules ...

    Propose to add something related to openness / transparency / disclosure:

    - disclosure required for posters with admin / moderator rights & conflict of interest resolution process (moderators who are as well posters are only able to penalise posters if they are impartial in the related discussion) - a simple referral process should solve this.

    - Every moderator has a unique ID (based on my understanding that STMOD might be a number of people)

    - long term bans (more than some days) can be appealed. Appeal process as proposed by Birman boy (e.g. referral to a panel of say one moderator and 2 or 3 posters excluding the moderator who decided about he original ban)

    ... and I'd like a clear escalation process like e.g. proposed by miner (starting with warning / short ban (days) and only if this does not work, long ban (months). permanent ban in my view only for repeat offenders (3 strikes) and really bad behaviour

    agree as well with BirmanBoy's proposal that Moderators should explain the reason for any warnings / bans by referral to the respective (violated) rule.
    Thanks BP - good points!

    Vince

  9. #9
    The approachable Admin Guy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizard View Post
    Expected disclosure of related party interests or significant conflict of interest (i.e. other than minority shareholder <5% retail investor)

    Agree, thanks Lizard

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    Vince - you know my thoughts - thanks for the PM

  11. #11
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    A few more thoughts/ideas into the cauldron
    In the spirit of keeping it simple here are my thoughts on the golden rules.
    (1) No personal abuse either direct or implied.
    (2) No direct (personalised ) aggressive criticism or belittling of other investors methodologies. (This is not supportive of our shared goals and is not welcomed or encouraged. Countering posts should be polite, civilized and framed in such a way that they don’t leave individuals feeling belittled or perceived as idiots.)
    (3) All posters should have to disclose positions if they are employed by a Share market listed/associated company. If they are in a “top ten shareholder” position this should also be detailed. This, along with list of all shareholdings should be set as a “signature” for all posters and then is visible on all posts. I don’t believe this is asking too much and also adds some relevance andor questions as to posters motivation in posting.
    (4) No posts that have elements of defamation or discrimination.

    I think that any reported post should be measured and could be judged as being one of following.
    (a) Not contrary to rules
    (b) Contrary but minor or first offense..equals warning
    (c) Contrary but serious escalation , even if first offense, equals one week ban
    (d) Contrary and second offense on same subject..equals one week ban
    (e) Contrary and third offense on same subject..equals 3 month ban
    (f) Contrary and 4th offense on same subject ..permanent ban from forum

    Regards trolling, spruiking, downramping, pumping,dumping and associated endeavours. Since these are hard to prove and extremely open to interpretation, maybe let these be dealt with in the normal interaction of day to day posting. Being questioned by fellow posters should be sufficient to keep it under control. Its hard to draw a line between natural enthusiasm and pumping so let it go and let posters enjoy their wins and moan about their losses. It becomes obvious to most posters in anycase
    Last edited by BIRMANBOY; 12-12-2015 at 10:18 PM.
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    Hi Vince great idea
    Thumbs up work well, thumbs down don't. A person gets the message if there are low or no thumbs up.

    No attempting to influence/ monopolise ;....people/the thread, with multiple posts; maybe limit number of posts per day on any one thread.

    No continual Ramping or Bagging of stocks

    No Swearing

    1st offence a warning
    2nd offense 1- 3days suspended
    3rd 7 days
    4th 30 days
    5th 60 days

  13. #13
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    I moderate another forum where the rules are much more lenient than on here, but that doesn't make the job easier, it makes it much harder. Further, on that forum it is very difficult to get banned completely, but some do manage it.
    Three things we do there to keep the forum free flowing that may be of some use here:

    1. Have a thread in off topic where almost anything goes. Basically, in that thread, the rules are simple: No abuse (but teasing is OK), and nothing that would contravene any laws of the country. Anything that is out of place in other threads gets moved to this thread rather than being deleted, so that if two members are having an argument they can continue to argue without swamping a genuine thread. We call this thread Pointless Drivel.

    2. There is a stage between warning and banning where a member's posts are fully moderated. I.e. approved by a moderator before appearing on the forum. Continued abuse during this process will lead to a severe suspension or a ban. During this process no pms may be sent or received. This still allows for important information to be imparted or serious comment to be made.

    3. Warnings. when given, have a pre-determined expiry date (1 month for minor through to 3 months for more serious ones). This prevents moderators from having a beef with a member and punishing them for something that happened 2 years ago.
    Last edited by Jantar; 12-12-2015 at 11:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BIRMANBOY View Post

    maybe let these be dealt with in the normal interaction of day to day posting. Being questioned by fellow posters should be sufficient to keep it under control. Its hard to draw a line between natural enthusiasm and pumping so let it go and let posters enjoy their wins and moan about their losses. It becomes obvious to most posters in anycase
    Respectfully disagree.Unfortunately this hasn't worked in the past hence a recent ban. Relentless spruiking is very different to promoting a stock as is continuous bagging is different to choosing to sell or not buy a stock and giving reasons. Its the mods job and guidelines need to be clear for all imo..

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    quote Jantar

    1. Have a thread in off topic where almost anything goes. Basically, in that thread, the rules are simple: No abuse (but teasing is OK), and nothing that would contravene any laws of the country. Anything that is out of place in other threads gets moved to this thread rather than being deleted, so that if two members are having an argument they can continue to argue without swamping a genuine thread. We call this thread Pointless Drivel.
    and punishing them for something that happened 2 years ago.[/QUOTE]

    Great idea.I set up the "After Market Lounge" thread for this ,and humour, sharing int links etc. We could reactivate it or n maybe better to start a new one.
    Last edited by Joshuatree; 12-12-2015 at 11:46 PM.

  16. #16
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    I would like to see a very visible main page disclaimer for this site stating that the views of posters here are opinions only and are in no way financial advice.
    Technically stating "DYOR" is giving someone advice do to their own research........ which is still advice.....

    Most important rule for the internet:
    Do not be offended if someone disagrees with you on the internet.





    However , when understand that disagreeing with someone there is a very fine line between personal criticizing and criticizing an idea / statement.
    Most of the time even if you are criticizing and idea, and saying eg; "idea x is stupid" , then a person who believes idea x will probably think you are actually saying that they are stupid for believing idea x.

  17. #17
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    To keep the ball rolling.....
    Quote Originally Posted by BIRMANBOY View Post
    A few more thoughts/ideas into the cauldron
    In the spirit of keeping it simple here are my thoughts on the golden rules.
    (1) No personal abuse either direct or implied.

    more an Admin issue - but the only person who can complain about rule one is the aggrieved person - not a
    bystander

    (2)
    No direct (personalised ) aggressive criticism or belittling of other investors methodologies. (This is not supportive of our shared goals and is not welcomed or encouraged. Countering posts should be polite, civilized and framed in such a way that they don’t leave individuals feeling belittled or perceived as idiots.)
    Kinda the same as rule 1? and will perhaps makes things a bit sterile

    (3)
    All posters should have to disclose positions if they are employed by a Share market listed/associated company. If they are in a “top ten shareholder” position this should also be detailed. This, along with list of all shareholdings should be set as a “signature” for all posters and then is visible on all posts. I don’t believe this is asking too much and also adds some relevance andor questions as to posters motivation in posting.
    No I am against this one. My shareholdings are my personal business. This is a forum, not an investment advice seervbice so any views, unrestrained should be welcome


    I think that any reported post should be measured and could be judged as being one of following.
    (a) Not contrary to rules
    (b) Contrary but minor or first offense..equals warning
    (c) Contrary but serious escalation , even if first offense, equals one week ban
    (d) Contrary and second offense on same subject..equals one week ban
    (e) Contrary and third offense on same subject..equals 3 month ban
    (f) Contrary and 4th offense on same subject ..permanent ban from forum
    Agreed, but how a bout a bit simpler.
    Moderators cannot contribute to treads
    Complaints can only be made against a rule and by a participant in that thread
    Upheld complaint earns a "warning (wee red light thing that goes next to the Green light Reputations) that lasts say 6 months."Mods decide first 2 red lights
    Three red lights (on any threads combined) earns say a one week ban. Next ban is for say one month, next six months next one year.
    Decision on third red light decided by Jury of peers, not a Moderaotr

    Regards trolling, spruiking, downramping, pumping,dumping and associated endeavours. Since these are hard to prove and extremely open to interpretation, maybe let these be dealt with in the normal interaction of day to day posting. Being questioned by fellow posters should be sufficient to keep it under control. Its hard to draw a line between natural enthusiasm and pumping so let it go and let posters enjoy their wins and moan about their losses. It becomes obvious to most posters in any case
    Agreed - rules need to be simple and objective. Dont make the Mods job harder by allowing subjectivity.

    Oh, and another bit of admin rule.
    - Posters are solely responsible for opening, amending , deleting pasts. Admin reserves the right to add a footnote (eg "this post has earnt a warning"". None of this wholesale deletion of all posts when a Member spits the dummy. No deleting of posts by Mods. Flag it as a rule breaker sure, but move on.
    Last edited by minimoke; 13-12-2015 at 07:30 AM. Reason: quotes

  18. #18
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    No direct (personalised ) aggressive criticism or belittling of other investors methodologies.QUOTE

    I agree with your ''aggressive'' and ''belittling'' but I believe its fair game to question other methodologies--how else do we learn?

    I think most can tell when posts are starting to turn negative and even abusive (a sure sign is when those adjectives start popping up)

    I agree about not deleting posts of departing members--when we make comments -they should stay IMO

    I suppose we need to get clear whether its fair game to question company's performance or even motivation (leaving comments about posters out of the mix aside from disagreeing)--(obviously repeated remarks one way or the other should be minimized)

    It would be interesting to know whether posters feel that the rules are to strict or to lax at present

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    Respectfully disagree.Unfortunately this hasn't worked in the past hence a recent ban. Relentless spruiking is very different to promoting a stock as is continuous bagging is different to choosing to sell or not buy a stock and giving reasons. Its the mods job and guidelines need to be clear for all imo..
    Thanks Vince for giving us the opportunity to comment on new rules.

    There isn’t much to add as other posters have come up with a fairly comprehensive list. My view is in line with what minimoke, Black Peter, Lizard and Birmanboy have posted.

    I do not like the thumbs up thumbs down idea. We already have a facility to agree or disagree with posts and these are now open to anyone to look at. I think that is sufficient.

    I do agree with Birmanboy about the pumping, dumping downramping etc, leave it to be dealt with in he normal interaction of day to day posting. Posters can easily put those they don’t like on the “ignore” function
    Last edited by iceman; 13-12-2015 at 10:29 AM.

  20. #20
    CEO Butch Analytics Ltd winner69's Avatar
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    Probably posted this own wrong thread previously. Short summary - probably existing rules are enough.

    What is the purpose / objective of Sharetrader? Without knowing this what's the point if having 'enforceable' rules beyond those of common decency, politeness and some legal protection constraints. These seem to be in place?

    From the owners perspective t is probably a means to reach out to many like minded people so they can make money (advertising, direct marketing etc). Your details are valuable to them.

    But what about us?

    The owners tout - www.sharetrader.co.nz - the only on-line communityfor share traders in NZ

    The header on this page says - NZ's number one share market forum for investors

    The NZX Forum is - Your place to discuss the instruments listed on the NZX

    So it seems we are a community where we have forums to discuss things.

    Communities are what participants want to make it. A Forum by definition is a public place for people to hold open discussions (ie have a conversation).

    It seems that what can be discussed is the root if the current discontent on ST.

    It seems some want a regimented disciplined approach to what is said on a topic - like strictly on topic and no real constructive discussion on pro and cons or whatever on a stock. That seems a sterile boring place to be.

    Communities thrive by open discussion (sometimes vigourous / sometimes unpalatable to some). It is the members themselves who generally control how far these discussions go .....without the need torun of to the referee if one is not happy. This creates vibrant community and not a disciplined regimented one.

    I prefer the latter model. If that means people aren't happy with me saying on the Scales thread that my home baked apple turnovers (on topic) they can either ignore it or pull me into line in a nice sort of way - but such is not red flags or banning material.

    Too many rules and too much disciplinary actin and this this forum is stuffed - stuffed by the collective us and probably to the dismay of the owners.

    Just my rave on a Sunday morning after the AC DC gig last night. In spite of wind and rain and technical difficulties a really spectacular event, great show. Betcha the residents of Thorndon didn't appreciate the cannons booming out at 11.30 - they were loud, really loud.
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