LendingCROWD NZ P2P

[darrenc]

Just got a loan notification by email but still no joy!

Yes, me too. I think it will take LC some time to figure out what is genuine traffic and what isn't. In fact, the only way I can think that they will be able to do it is seeing if a person is logged in and then counting how many page refreshes they make on the investment page and whether they are at consistent intervals. Of course, this is ridiculously easy to sidestep by anyone with any programming knowledge (randomise the intervals and have it access other pages, too, not just the loans page). Plus, given their rather pathetic development timeline, I actually doubt that they have anything in place at all yet, and this is just a scare tactic. It would almost be simpler to develop an auto-invest feature than it is to try to prevent this kind of auto-investment software from logging in and placing orders. If you had internal auto-invest that placed the investments before they hit the market, everyone would use it and the amounts would be fairly distributed. Most loans wouldn't hit the general market, therefore everyone is on a level playing field.

Of course, that disadvantages me because I work at a computer and can deal with emails as they come through.

So, for now, I've stopped using Aaron's awesome software and will simply keep the loans page open in my second monitor with an auto-refresh so it doesn't log me out, which is what I do with Harmoney. If I manage to spot a loan out of the corner of my eye I'll be in it asap.

[Darchie]

Just got a loan notification by email but still no joy!

Same here... Zip!

[mp52]

In fact, the only way I can think that they will be able to do it is seeing if a person is logged in and then counting how many page refreshes they make on the investment page and whether they are at consistent intervals.

Surely it's a little more nuanced than that - page refreshing does not equal auto-investment. It's legitimate to run auto-fresh just to prevent yourself having to re-login to a site repeatedly. Auto-investment suggests a sequence of page requests completing a transaction in a fraction of the time a human would (perhaps repeatedly in short succession depending on algorithms used). Maybe even a server log showing a pattern of only API data requests with none of the HTML or associated visual assets you'd expect from normal browser use?

[darrenc]

Surely it's a little more nuanced than that - page refreshing does not equal auto-investment. It's legitimate to run auto-fresh just to prevent yourself having to re-login to a site repeatedly. Auto-investment suggests a sequence of page requests completing a transaction in a fraction of the time a human would (perhaps repeatedly in short succession depending on algorithms used). Maybe even a server log showing a pattern of only API data requests with none of the HTML or associated visual assets you'd expect from normal browser use?

Firstly, it doesn't have to be an API data request; software can mimic a browser session. While I don't know how Aaron's software worked, it used our normal login details and not an API key. Secondly, what's the difference between a human placing the order and a piece of software mimicking a browser placing the order? You can make delays in the process to mimic human behaviour. As I mentioned, it would be easy to detect if it was one account rapidly entering multiple orders for $50 or $100, but very difficult if it was one order for $500 and the software deliberately delayed the activation of each part of the process.

We know that B2 minimum amount is $2250, so assuming a person has software polling every 10 seconds they would almost certainly be able to invest the majority of that, say $1700. With a B1 loan it's going to be more. You could place an order of $2000 or more, then grab another order 20 seconds later if some remains. And so on. Harmoney would then only be able to determine that there has been multiple orders placed for one of the loans. But, with the loans with single entries, it would be hard to ascertain whether they are bots or humans. One other measure they could use is if someone manages to get into every single loan, although this still doesn't mean they are using an auto-investor.

Also, I don't know whether the penalty is enough. Let's say LC bans you from investing any more in that account. You don't lose the money and you continue getting interest. How difficult is it to set up another account under a different name or person then just be more careful?

Anyway, we'll have to see how it works. I doubt whether LC will report how many people it is banning. The $17k B1 loan today stayed around on the platform 6 minutes but it wasn't a super-appealing loan but the $5k B1 loan was gone in less than a minute.

[whitt]

if somebody was that way inclined and needed a workaround I am sure they could create an email rule that opened the existing app and ran it for 1 minute only once a loan listing email came thru.
For experimental purposes only of course..

[joker]

if somebody was that way inclined and needed a workaround I am sure they could create an email rule that opened the existing app and ran it for 1 minute only once a loan listing email came thru.
For experimental purposes only of course..

And could they please send me a copy too?

[whitt]

And could they please send me a copy too?

I tried the concept and it is possible to run an app using script thru outlook email, you can even set script to kill app after a time based period.

Although using the app from Pennypicker is no longer possible as he has set its licence to prevent usage. He is a very clever cookie.

You would instead need to run a less reliable 3rd party app or create your own if you wanted to di the email trigger workaround.

I might move more funds to Harmoney if LC proves difficult to lend thru. I have had reasonable results with Harmoney over 2 years of use and they have Auto invest feature.

[darrenc]

By the time you've received the email, launched the app and logged in, most B2 loans will be full.

At the moment I'm at 14.2% in LC and 14.7% in Harmoney. If you're picking in Harmoney you can get good results, but it's quite active - you need to be on there frequently during the day or you miss the good loans.

[Saamee]

Looks like RWT Certificates were Emailed out from LC today

Just waiting for Harmoney now....

[darrenc]

There's new validation ('recaptcha') on the pop-up screen where you do the ordering. It should help remove the less sophisticated bots and auto-investors.

The $16k B1 only hung around a couple of minutes maximum, though.