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Thread: Brexit

  1. #1006
    Ignorant. Just ignorant.
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    My opinion, for what little it's worth, is that the U.K. has developed a political culture of briefings and leaks for purely personal political advancement, with no regard for the national interest.

    If Ms X is prepared to throw the U.K. ambassador to the US under a bus for personal politics, what else are they prepared to leak or brief?

    I can sympathize with the Scots for wanting out of the Union, and I suspect that the EU are coming to the point where they can see no upside to keeping an increasingly toxic U.K. inside the tent.

    And if I were one of the other four eyes, I'd be wondering what I dared share. . .

  2. #1007
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    60% of Scotlandís trade is with the rest of the UK. Scotland has been a part of the UK for over 300 years in a more integrated way that the UK has been in the EU. In order to discourage Cataloniaís nationalists, Spain will probably make sure that Scotland has to go through the full application process to join the EU as an independent country. So Scottish independence or Scexit will also suck up resources and will not be an easy process. Any Benefits may take some time to manifest themselves.

    I am not sure that these leaks of memos from the UK ambassador to the UK government make the UK any more of a source of shared five eyes intelligence leaks than the USA. Also, These particular leaks are certainly not of the scale or importance of information dumped by Assange or Snowden.

  3. #1008
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    From talking to lots of Scots, many of them want "out", and damn the consequences - like the English and the EU.

    However they will probably settle for "ever-greater devolution" in the short to medium term.

    As far as the leaks go, the Assange, Manning, and Snowden leaks didn't come from those inside the political or bureaucratic establishment.

    Someone inside the tent, p*ssing inside the tent, if you will.

    I see the provenance of the leaks as just as important as the leaks themselves. And I doubt very much whether Brexit (whether or however achieved and implemented) will do anything to solve the cultural problem of an increasingly toxic and increasingly untrustworthy English political environment.
    Last edited by GTM 3442; 10-07-2019 at 09:41 PM.

  4. #1009
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    I agree, The British Government is turning turning against itself and the leak is likely from within Brexit obsessed government. However it was a leak of internal British classified information. Nothing startling was revealed. Nothing suggests - at this stage - that the UK will haemorrhage intelligence from other five eyes partners.

    That could change though. The Brexit process has many more years to run, the toxicity could further permeate the political establishment and public service and UK pragmatism could be further lost to obsessed ideology. There is no two-term or eight year limit to Brexit. Besides internal UK divisions over whether the UK/England should align itself more with Europe or more with the USA will not be settled by Brexit.
    Last edited by Bjauck; 11-07-2019 at 08:07 AM.

  5. #1010
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    As far as the leaks go, the Assange, Manning, and Snowden leaks didn't come from those inside the political or bureaucratic establishment.

    Someone inside the tent, p*ssing inside the tent, if you will.
    Who else is "inside the tent", apart from the political or bureaucratic establishment?

  6. #1011
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    Quote Originally Posted by macduffy View Post
    Who else is "inside the tent", apart from the political or bureaucratic establishment?
    That's my point - albeit poorly expressed.

  7. #1012
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    Default Take back Control?

    Chief Brexiter and PM apparent Boris Johnson has shown that he won't support wronged British officials and will likely jettison British Public officials at the behest of the American President. The Union flag that Boris waved when dangling off the zip line should have been the stars and stripes as the World gets a glimpse of the direction he will take the UK when he becomes PM.

    So much for taking back control. Another Brexit "promise" exposed as an election bribe? He has shown that when the UK leaves the shared sovereignty of the European Union he will submit the UK as a vassal state to the diktats of this American President.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...a-grim-portent

  8. #1013
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    Yes, grim indeed. However, this too shall pass and the best hope is that the Conservatives see some sense and make BJ's seemingly inevitable reign a brief one, before the electorate throws them out.

  9. #1014
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    Quote Originally Posted by macduffy View Post
    Yes, grim indeed. However, this too shall pass and the best hope is that the Conservatives see some sense and make BJ's seemingly inevitable reign a brief one, before the electorate throws them out.
    His pledge to deliver Brexit in about three months’ time, no matter what, could make even a brief tenure extremely destructive for the UK. This would also be at the hands of PM who assumed the post of PM without facing a general election as the leader of a Party.

    I think moderate Conservatives may fear left-wing Labourite Corbyn more than right-wing populist Johnson. Despite major defeats on her main policy, Theresa May was propped up for a long time by Conservatives and Ulster Unionists. Johnson could well be propped up as well until the next scheduled general election.

    Many conservatives MPs who are not right-wing or pro-Brexit enough could well be deselected before an election by local Conservative parties that have been swelled by ex-UKIP Party supporters and other members attracted by the shift of the Conservative Party since the last election to the hard right. So they may not relish pushing forward a snap election.

  10. #1015
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    Time to celebrate the will of the British people The Tory Party membership have elected arch-Brexiter Johnson to be the UK PM. He will lead Britain to a glorious Brexit shangri-la with Britain's sovereignty fully restored and with Johnny Foreigners stopped at the border. The UK will not be in Trump's pocket.The UK will be free to do whatever it wants while easily striking wonderful free trade deals around the world...

  11. #1016
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Time to celebrate the will of the British people The Tory Party membership have elected arch-Brexiter Johnson to be the UK PM. He will lead Britain to a glorious Brexit shangri-la with Britain's sovereignty fully restored and with Johnny Foreigners stopped at the border. The UK will not be in Trump's pocket.The UK will be free to do whatever it wants while easily striking wonderful free trade deals around the world...
    An exceptionally long Tui add

  12. #1017
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    Quote Originally Posted by dobby41 View Post
    An exceptionally long Tui add
    Yeah but no...only a good English Imperial Stout served warm would do. Not even a Guinness from those Irish with that pesky border would do.

    Brexit has been a long tui ad! However without the requirement (or even desire now) to boost sales...
    Last edited by Bjauck; 24-07-2019 at 08:37 AM.

  13. #1018
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    Hmm - the British PM is either deluded or an outrageous liar ... probably both. Judge for yourself:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lch6IbF279U
    ----
    "Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" (Niels Bohr)

  14. #1019
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Hmm - the British PM is either deluded or an outrageous liar ... probably both. Judge for yourself:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lch6IbF279U
    He lies all the time.
    So do most leaders-Trump and Putin for instance.
    Mankind is in a very dangerous place .

    ps-I feel we are lucky having Jacinda-although I didnt vote for her I might in the future-unless National has a leader who tells the truth first-amongst other attributes.
    Last edited by fish; 13-08-2019 at 07:01 AM.

  15. #1020
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Hmm - the British PM is either deluded or an outrageous liar ... probably both. Judge for yourself:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lch6IbF279U
    He lies all the time.
    So do most leaders-Trump and Putin for instance.
    Mankind is in a very dangerous place .

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