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Thread: Brexit

  1. #976
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTM 3442 View Post
    Perhaps. I'm always a little sceptical of number-crunching in politics, personally.

    But the structure of the party-oriented Westminster system means that there is no mechanism available to deal with a non-party problem.
    True. That is why referendums in the Westminster system should be used sparingly on issues with a clear plan for enacting the potential results. They should not be binding so that elected MPs can respond to unforeseen issues.

    That Parliament, with its confrontational mode of operation, said that they would treat this ill-prepared referendum as binding was a mistake.

    A problem such as leaving the EU really requires a Nation-wide cross-party approach. Yet Theresa May treated it as her governing party’s issue, ignored the devolved governments in Wales and Scotland, and only involved the opposition Party at the last minute to try to defeat the ERG faction within her own Party.
    Last edited by Bjauck; 29-05-2019 at 07:30 AM.

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    Boris Brexit summoned to stand trial for "lying in office":

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/29/w...on-brexit.html

    In a written ruling, District Judge Margot Coleman of Westminster Magistrates’ Court in London said that Mr. Johnson should be summoned to court, while noting that the accusations had not been proven and that she had not made any findings of fact.

    “Having considered all the relevant factors, I am satisfied that this is a proper case to issue the summons as requested for the three offenses as drafted,” Judge Coleman said. “This means the proposed defendant will be required to attend this court for a preliminary hearing, and the case will then be sent to the Crown Court for trial.”

    The judge’s ruling did not specify a date for Mr. Johnson to appear in court. The maximum punishment for the offense is life imprisonment after conviction.
    Obviously - while we know that Boris is a liar, we don't know yet, whether his lies will be found against the law. Apparently there are many situations where lying is a lawful activity.

    But anyway - looks like he is fully qualified to become the next British PM ...
    Last edited by BlackPeter; 30-05-2019 at 05:32 PM.
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  3. #978
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post

    But anyway - looks like he is fully qualified to become the next British PM ...
    He just needs to come up with slogans like Brexit means Brexit and he can act as arrogantly as he wants. He is definitely the Brexit British Buffoon appropriate for the Flying Circus of British Politics.

    He can wave Union Jacks while stuck high and dry up in the air dangling off a Zip Line. All the boxes are ticked! Jeremy Corbyn is up there too waving the Red Flag.

    I give No Deal an 80% chance now. The French will be reluctant to accept another extension past Halloween.

  4. #979
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    He just needs to come up with slogans like Brexit means Brexit and he can act as arrogantly as he wants. He is definitely the Brexit British Buffoon appropriate for the Flying Circus of British Politics.

    He can wave Union Jacks while stuck high and dry up in the air dangling off a Zip Line. All the boxes are ticked! Jeremy Corbyn is up there too waving the Red Flag.

    I give No Deal an 80% chance now. The French will be reluctant to accept another extension past Halloween.
    Agree - looks like the populists are on their way to score another lose - lose for everybody. A hard Brexit will be bad for Europe and a catastrophe for the Untied Kingdom.

    Anyway: very ugly but fascinating to watch - like a train collision in slow motion.
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    The latest YouGov voting intention poll for The Times has the LibDems on 24%; Brexit 22%; Lab 19%; Con 19%

    From the previous YouGov Times poll two weeks ago, LibeDems increased from 16% to 24% whilst Brexit Party increased from 18% to 22%. Has the resurgence of Farage (and prospect of Boris Johnson as Prime Minister) actually stimulated an anti-Brexit reaction which is coalescing around the Liberal Democrats?

    This poll has all vehemently anti-Brexit parties garnering 39% support (up from 31%); The vehemently pro-Brexit Parties 23% (up from 20%)
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...ecome-party-48
    Last edited by Bjauck; 31-05-2019 at 04:37 PM.

  6. #981
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    The latest YouGov voting intention poll for The Times has the LibDems on 24%; Brexit 22%; Lab 19%; Con 19%

    From the previous YouGov Times poll two weeks ago, LibeDems increased from 16% to 24% whilst Brexit Party increased from 18% to 22%. Has the resurgence of Farage (and prospect of Boris Johnson as Prime Minister) actually stimulated an anti-Brexit reaction which is coalescing around the Liberal Democrats?

    This poll has all vehemently anti-Brexit parties garnering 39% support (up from 31%); The vehemently pro-Brexit Parties 23% (up from 20%)
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...ecome-party-48
    Interesting - though I guess 4 similarly strong parties would mean under the UK FPP system that the country would end up in an election with a random choice, which might have nothing to do with what the majority of British people want.

    On the other hand - it probably would mean that the Scottish independance party could become the king maker, which in my view would be an outstanding choice ; Genuine and honest people - maybe the last of their kind in the British parliament.

    When do they have their next election?

    Great democracy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Interesting - though I guess 4 similarly strong parties would mean under the UK FPP system that the country would end up in an election with a random choice, which might have nothing to do with what the majority of British people want.

    On the other hand - it probably would mean that the Scottish independance party could become the king maker, which in my view would be an outstanding choice ; Genuine and honest people - maybe the last of their kind in the British parliament.

    When do they have their next election?

    Great democracy!
    Yes it would be a mess. I imagine the Conservatives will try to avoid an election as they could be annihilated. They would probably prefer a No Deal to going for an election.

    As NZ realised, FPP is not good at providing for fair representation in parliament when the two party system fails to accommodate more than two viewpoints.The Brits in a referendum kept the FPP system for their 600 odd seat lower chamber. The House of Lords are a mixture of aristocrats and ruling party appointees.

    Conservatives tend to have a lot of support in English countryside; Labour in the cities (as in NZ). The LibDems support tends to be spread more evenly so they are at risk of getting many fewer seats than their voting percentage would get in a proportionate system. That is unless they start getting over 30% of the vote. Brexit Party is a bit more unknown but could be like the LibDems in having a more even spread in support.

  8. #983
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post

    Conservatives tend to have a lot of support in English countryside; Labour in the cities (as in NZ). The LibDems support tends to be spread more evenly so they are at risk of getting many fewer seats than their voting percentage would get in a proportionate system. That is unless they start getting over 30% of the vote. Brexit Party is a bit more unknown but could be like the LibDems in having a more even spread in support.
    Good points. Not fair, though - but this seems to be life :
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  9. #984
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    Default time for a cartoon ...

    Brexit_follow me ....jpg

    That's how Chris Riddell sees the situation. His cartoons are normally less gloomy, but maybe there is a reason for his mood ...

    Just think about it - a small bunch of old white men (the Tory members) are likely to push the country against the will of the majority and against he will of parliament without deal out of the EU ... that's British democracy for you!
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  10. #985
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Brexit_follow me ....jpg

    That's how Chris Riddell sees the situation. His cartoons are normally less gloomy, but maybe there is a reason for his mood ...

    Just think about it - a small bunch of old white men (the Tory members) are likely to push the country against the will of the majority and against he will of parliament without deal out of the EU ... that's British democracy for you!
    It does seem that most of the contenders for the Conservative leadership (and hence UK PM) seem to think that the way to save their Party’s fortunes is to try to be as Jingoistically populist as Farage and the No Deal Brexit Party. (Moderate Conservative party supporters seem to be giving their support to the LibDems now.)

    It seems irrelevant now to the Conservatuves that many Brexiters had campaigned prior to the referendum on the premise that a good cherry picking sweetheart Brexit deal would be easily won from the EU. That of course failed to materialise.

    Of course what the countries of the UK and the population currently want is also irrelevant to them (let alone what is good for Europe as a whole).

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    Default The case against Johnson

    The High Court overturns the District Court's decision. The point seemed to be that Boris Johnson's abuse of power was not done in private! https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48554853

  12. #987
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    The High Court overturns the District Court's decision. The point seemed to be that Boris Johnson's abuse of power was not done in private! https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48554853
    Yep, interesting interpretation of the law. Apparently the high court judge thinks that lying in plain sight is ok, it is only unlawful if people lie secretly.
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    Views of a high level British diplomat on the UK's standing after the BREXIT disaster:

    Scott Wightman, Britain’s outgoing senior diplomat in Singapore, has said Britain is now seen worldwide as a country beset by division, obsessed with ideology and careless of truth.

    In a valedictory note, he compared Brexit to the fall of Singapore in 1942 and said major investors expect future investment in Europe to be directed more towards Germany and France.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...enior-diplomat

    The Brexiteers clearly couldn't have done a better job to destroy Britain's reputation and future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Views of a high level British diplomat on the UK's standing after the BREXIT disaster:



    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...enior-diplomat

    The Brexiteers clearly couldn't have done a better job to destroy Britain's reputation and future.
    For many Brexiters it was about trying to recapture the supposed glory of the UK's past. The campaign was not transparent about how much that would end up costing.

    The young are more concerned about the future and they tend to be more European in their outlook.

    The Brits seemed to be obsessed by being humiliated according to Fintan O'Toole.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...iliation-uk-eu

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    Comments on the debate of the "next prime minister"-s in spe:

    Perhaps the most scathing line of the night was the title. It was called Our Next Prime Minister and as the hour wore on, those four words sounded increasingly like a rebuke to the nation. Look at us, they seemed to say: a fabled country with a long, proud history and one of these five jokers is actually going to be our next prime minister.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...than-freedland

    Poor England, though on the other hand, they are at least responsible for the misery they did run into. They voted for Brexit (well, the majority of them who bothered to vote).

    However - just spare a thought for the Scotts and the Northern Irish who are in this mess only due to to the English occupation of their territories. They asked neither for Brexit nor for a Brexit clown as PM.
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