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Thread: Brexit

  1. #961
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paddles View Post
    The funny part is him spruiking for donations for the prosecution on Sharetrader. I'd rather burn my money than spend it on a moronic prosecution of a politician from another country. He will never be found guilty.

    Find me one politician, anywhere that doesn't lie.
    Sure fair enough and you may right about his being found guilty. There are degrees of deception. It could have ramifications for NZ as a common law jurisdiction however.

  2. #962
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    Hmm - can't avoid to see the posts responding to paddles (he is on my ignore list - the reason to get there is typically by spreading fake news).

    Anyway - while I am happy to amuse him, he might consider that not everybody on here is supporting crooks and liars.

    Some people do want to make this world a better place - and disencouraging crooks and liars to do their thing is part of that.
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  3. #963
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    Brexit referendum promises have been hitting EU and British realities for years now. There is a documentary/video journal on YouTube that follows this pantomime from the EU (mainly following verhofstadt) perspective.

    Brexit Behind Closed Doors
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TZkLF3KzePQ

    UK EU election polls now indicate that The Brexit Party led by Farage is now more popular that the Conservative and Labour Parties combined.
    Last edited by Bjauck; 13-05-2019 at 01:16 AM.

  4. #964
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Brexit referendum promises have been hitting EU and British realities for years now. There is a documentary/video journal on YouTube that follows this pantomime from the EU (mainly following verhofstadt) perspective.

    Brexit Behind Closed Doors
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TZkLF3KzePQ

    UK EU election polls now indicate that The Brexit Party led by Farage is now more popular that the Conservative and Labour Parties combined.
    The Brexit party is now also polling larger than the conservatives for the general election in the UK. https://www.breitbart.com/europe/201...election-poll/
    Last edited by blackcap; 13-05-2019 at 06:47 AM.

  5. #965
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    The Brexit party is now also polling larger than the conservatives for the general election in the UK. https://www.breitbart.com/europe/201...election-poll/
    That would mean that the Brexit Party would be in line to get serious numbers of MPs in the UK Parliament under their FPP system. I think No Deal Brexit has become the most likely result at the moment with so many switching to Farage.

    Looking at the polls it seems that remainers have been switching to the Liberal Democrats and hard leavers have been switching to Brexit Party.

    It is not surprising that the Conservatives have been losing support. They organised the referendum without a plan to enact the result. They elected a leader whose Brexit plan failed to garner sufficient support of her own party. The Conservative party leader then turned her back on her own MPs to try to get support from a very left wing Labour Party leader.

    Brexit is now toxic to the UK as a whole but it is even more toxic for the Conservative Party. So it is no surprise that a populist leader with a “man at the local pub” image with beguiling seemingly simple solutions is gaining support.
    Last edited by Bjauck; 13-05-2019 at 08:18 AM.

  6. #966
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Hmm - can't avoid to see the posts responding to paddles (he is on my ignore list - the reason to get there is typically by spreading fake news).

    Anyway - while I am happy to amuse him, he might consider that not everybody on here is supporting crooks and liars.

    Some people do want to make this world a better place - and disencouraging crooks and liars to do their thing is part of that.
    good summary in the huffigtonpost of what is happening:

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b0796a95dd85bd
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  7. #967
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    good summary in the huffigtonpost of what is happening:

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b0796a95dd85bd
    It is interesting to read how the prosecution is progressing.

    I read the linked article from Matthew Scott who takes a slightly contrarian view to Marcus Ball.

    While the common law precedent is sparse on “misconduct in public office”, he thinks that it will be difficult to get a conviction on the point that he “must also have lied while “acting as” an office holder.”

    Marcus Ball argues however that as Boris Johnson had his referendum travel expenses reimbursed from his MP’s expenses, Johnson lied whilst acting as an MP not merely as a referendum campaigner. It is that point which could be the stumbling block.

    If the case succeeds, Scott opines that it will be those public office holders who campaign for minority causes who may then become the subject of police investigations. However, I think maybe they would need to be scrupulous in ensuring no public money is spent on their campaigning.

    Anyway, an intesting case to follow.

  8. #968
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    BoJo has publicly announced he wants Theresa May’s job as Conservative Party leader.
    It’s even more important now to find out if he lied whilst acting in public office.
    Last edited by Bjauck; 17-05-2019 at 08:27 AM.

  9. #969
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    Good to see the newly formed "Brexit Party" winning the EU elections in the UK and getting a total of 28 MEP's (at this stage) into the EU parliament.
    Huge losses for Labour and the Conservatives. Might be time to open the bubbly.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/crje...elections-2019

    And even better, it looks like Le Pen has defeated Macron in France.
    Last edited by blackcap; 27-05-2019 at 03:42 PM.

  10. #970
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    Good to see the newly formed "Brexit Party" winning the EU elections in the UK and getting a total of 28 MEP's (at this stage) into the EU parliament.
    Huge losses for Labour and the Conservatives. Might be time to open the bubbly.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/crje...elections-2019

    And even better, it looks like Le Pen has defeated Macron in France.
    Farage claimed the UK could be like Norway, a member of the single market, during Brexit referendum interviews and how many voted Brexit on the basis of the cherry picking schemes various Brexiteers promised?

    When reality struck home and Theresa May offered Brexit reality that would not bankrupt their country, many Brexiteer MPs voted against Brexit!

    Now Farage backs a No Deal. So he has changed his approach.

    After most of the counting:

    The Brexit and UKIP Parties got 35% of the vote.
    Anti-Brexit Parties got 40% of the vote

    Lab (Brexit sceptic on average) got 14% of the vote
    Con (Failed to deliver Brexit) got 9% of the vote

    So
    pro Brexit Parties got 44%
    Brexit Sceptic Parties got 54%

    There is no mandate for a Hard Brexit or for the Brexit deal that has been pursued by the Conservatives. After three years of trying to implement Brexit, it needs a second referendum or to be cancelled?

  11. #971
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    Another perspective:

    With almost all regions counted, the Brexit Party is in the clear lead after winning around one-third of the vote and projected to have gained 29 seats. In a distant second, the pro-Remain Liberal Democrats won 15 seats, while the new Change UK (CUK), established solely to stop Brexit, failed to gain a single seat.

    “Never before in British politics has a party just 6 weeks old won a national election,” Mr Farage posted to Twitter Monday morning. “If Britain does not leave the EU on October 31st, these results will be repeated at a general election.

    “History has been made. This is just the beginning.”

    Media reports that the Tories suffered their worst election result in two centuries, dropping to just nine per cent of the vote and winning only four seats — losing 15 — while the Labour Party is said to have had its worst election result in 100 years, halving its presence in the European Parliament from 20 to just ten seats.

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/201...-eu-elections/

  12. #972
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    Oh dear. Out of idle curiosity, I wonder what the 28 Brexit Party members think they're going to accomplish in Strasbourg. And yet they may be the last best hope.

    Brexit, as a political problem, isn't solvable within the UK's two party political system, as it's not a party policy problem.

    Think of it as a quadrant -

    top left - Labour Leavers
    top right - Conservative Leavers
    bottom left - Labour Remainers
    bottom right - Conseervative Remainers

    Neither the Leavers nor the Remainers can consolidate across the constraints of party boundaries, and neither Labour nor the Conservatives can consolidate across the Remain/Leave divide.

    So what will break the logjam? Indeed, is the logjam breakable?

  13. #973
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    Another perspective:

    With almost all regions counted, the Brexit Party is in the clear lead after winning around one-third of the vote and projected to have gained 29 seats. In a distant second, the pro-Remain Liberal Democrats won 15 seats, while the new Change UK (CUK), established solely to stop Brexit, failed to gain a single seat....
    The Brexit Party is a one-trick pony. Farage had said it would only release its policies AFTER the election. So there was no history or wide range of developed policies that the oppositions could argue against...

    Did Breitbart ignore the other anti-Brexit Parties? The Greens, Scottish Nationalists, Northern Irish Alliance, Welsh Nationalists and SF all got MEPs. They have sophisticated policies across the spectrum of policy areas. They bring 13 anti-Brexit MEPs. When added to the Libs 16, That is 29 anti-Brexit MPs from parties with a developed policy spectrum that could be criticised.

    The anti-Brexit Parties fared even better with the % of the actual vote (as opposed to no. of MEPs gained)

  14. #974
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTM 3442 View Post
    ...

    Neither the Leavers nor the Remainers can consolidate across the constraints of party boundaries, and neither Labour nor the Conservatives can consolidate across the Remain/Leave divide.

    So what will break the logjam? Indeed, is the logjam breakable?
    Actually the vote for all the anti-Brexit parties plus the vote for the Sceptical Labour Party indicates there is no majority support for the Brexit negotiated by the Conservatives or for the hard Brexit being advocated by The Brexit Party.

    It is three years since the Brexit referendum, it is time for a second referendum with more clearly defined options....No deal Brexit (or a deal if parliament can eventually approve the deal that was negotiated) or No Brexit.

    Unless it wants to become a pariah state, Even a No Deal Brexit would mean that under international law the UK would have to pay Billions to the EU after it leaves to honour the obligations to which it had already agreed as a signatory to the EU treaties. However the No Deal would mean they would have no continued privileged access to their biggest economic partner....
    Last edited by Bjauck; 28-05-2019 at 11:04 AM.

  15. #975
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Actually the vote for all the anti-Brexit parties plus the vote for the Sceptical Labour Party indicates there is no majority support for the Brexit negotiated by the Conservatives or for the hard Brexit being advocated by The Brexit Party.. . ..

    Perhaps. I'm always a little sceptical of number-crunching in politics, personally.

    But the structure of the party-oriented Westminster system means that there is no mechanism available to deal with a non-party problem.

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