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Thread: Brexit

  1. #1361
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    Default UK: Failing International Pariah?

    The UK has traditionally been a supporter of upholding International law. It has recently referred to its Treaty with China in requesting that China respect the One Nation Two Systems treaty that was negotiated prior to the UK withdrawing from Hong Kong.

    However, Boris Johnson is now seeking to make the UK an international pariah state. He is introducing legislation into the UK parliament which will abrogate the EU Withdrawal Treaty he signed between the UK and EU. This would also abrogate its Good Friday Treaty on Northern Ireland as a result.

    Even if this is a negotiating tactic, even the threat of breaching international treaties stinks of bad faith. How will other countries deal with such a country and their leadership?

    Boris Johnson may well say that UK Parliamentary Sovereignty can over-ride the UK's International Treaties. However for other countries that provides no reassurance that the UK will act as a reliable partner. The UK is now planning to dishonour its International obligations for its own political expediency.

    It is also self-serving for Boris Johnson now to rely on British parliamentary sovereignty after he had previously unlawfully suspended it, when parliament tried to debate and vote on his policies.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-covid-economy
    Last edited by Bjauck; 11-09-2020 at 08:50 AM.

  2. #1362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    The UK has traditionally been a supporter of upholding International law. It has recently referred to its Treaty with China in requesting that China respect the One Nation Two Systems treaty that was negotiated prior to the UK withdrawing from Hong Kong.

    However, Boris Johnson is now seeking to make the UK an international pariah state. He is introducing legislation into the UK parliament which will abrogate the EU Withdrawal Treaty he signed between the UK and EU. This would also abrogate its Good Friday Treaty on Northern Ireland as a result.

    Even if this is a negotiating tactic, even the threat of breaching international treaties stinks of bad faith. How will other countries deal with such a country and their leadership?

    Boris Johnson may well say that UK Parliamentary Sovereignty can over-ride the UK's International Treaties. However for other countries that provides no reassurance that the UK will act as a reliable partner. The UK is now planning to dishonour its International obligations for its own political expediency.

    It is also self-serving for Boris Johnson now to rely on British parliamentary sovereignty after he had previously unlawfully suspended it, when parliament tried to debate and vote on his policies.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-covid-economy
    Well, not a lot one can add. Boris Johnson is a populist, a crook, a hypocrite and a liar and so are the people working with him.

    International relations certainly will become interesting when nobody anymore feels bound by the treaties they sign. Law of the jungle will prevail. I just doubt that this will be of benefit for the UK. They are getting weaker by the day ... and pretty good in p*ssing off any friends they used to have. This is a result to be expected when decency is suspended in a country and selfish hate crowds allowed to take over control.
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  3. #1363
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Well, not a lot one can add. Boris Johnson is a populist, a crook, a hypocrite and a liar and so are the people working with him....
    I wonder if the Kentish Brexit supporters in 2016 knew that Brexit meant that Boris Johnson intended to make their county into a giant Truck car park and establish a border between their county and the rest of England? I guess Brexit was always about establishing borders and making trade, commerce and travel more difficult. Just as well England is on top of Coronavirus so that they can expend their government resources on Brexit now?
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-54260470

  4. #1364
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    The steaming pile of poo that is the Brexit impact on the UK economy has got even bigger with the prospective exit of a fellow child of populist rhetoric from the White House.

    If Donald Trump was known as the American Mr. Brexit, then Joe Biden could easily be known as the Irish-American Mr. EU. Brexiter dreams of having a free hand to make free trade deals tailor-made for a Treaty-breaking post-Brexit UK may have hit a North Atlantic iceberg.

    The Brexit mess has just become more lonely and costly and is coming on top of Johnson's handling of coronavirus.

    Brexit and the US election: What the Trump v Biden result could mean for the UK

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1563572.html


    EU-loving Sleepy Joe Biden will screw us for daring to Brexit
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/131216...nt-for-brexit/
    Last edited by Bjauck; 07-11-2020 at 12:24 PM.

  5. #1365
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    The overriding narrative appears to be "It's the EU's fault", mirroring the tactic used so successfully in the short term, by Trump.

  6. #1366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
    The overriding narrative appears to be "It's the EU's fault", mirroring the tactic used so successfully in the short term, by Trump.
    Yes. Though the Americans kicked Trump put after 4 years. The Brits are probably stuck with Brexit for a generation at least.

  7. #1367
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    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...xit-capitalism

    ďHousetrained capitalists are horrified by Brexit. Not only does it dampen economic activity in general, but it threatens to destroy the market advantage for businesses that play by the rules. Without regulatory constraints, the warlords would wipe them out. Like other august institutions of capital, the Confederation of British Industry warned that leaving Europe would cause a major economic shock. In response to these concerns, Johnson, while he was foreign secretary, made a remark that might previously have seemed unthinkable, coming from the mouth of a senior Conservative, ď**** businessĒ.
    Johnsonís government is what warlord money buys. It could be seen as the perfect expression of the Pollution Paradox, a concept that I think is essential to understanding our politics. What this means is that the dirtier or more damaging an enterprise is, the more money it must spend on politics to ensure itís not regulated out of existence. As a result, political funding comes to be dominated by the most harmful companies and oligarchs, which then wield the greatest political influence. They crowd out their more accommodating rivals.
    It isnít just about pollution. Damaging enterprises with an interest in buying political results include banks developing exotic financial instruments; property developers who resent the planning laws; junk food companies; bosses seeking to destroy employment rights; and plutocrats hoping to avoid tax. Itís why weíll never have a healthy democracy without a radical reform of campaign finance
    "There is something wrong with a regime that requires a pyramid of corpses every few years." George Orwell.

  8. #1368
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    Just like Queen Elizabeth I's pirates of the Caribbean, the instigators and bankrollers of Brexit never intended it to help ordinary folk, it was always to be for the benefit of British capitalist pirates!

    Boris Johnson's Brexit is having disruptive ramifications for ordinary Brits and their families around Europe after decades of British integration with Europe. This comes on top of his handling of Covid.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...turn-to-the-uk
    Last edited by Bjauck; 30-11-2020 at 08:21 AM.

  9. #1369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Just like Queen Elizabeth I's pirates of the Caribbean, the architects of Brexit never intended it to help ordinary folk, it was always to be for the benefit of British capitalist pirates!

    Boris Johnson's Brexit is having disruptive ramifications for ordinary Brits and their families around Europe after decades of British integration with Europe. This comes on top of his handling of Covid.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...turn-to-the-uk
    Hmm ... wasn't it you reminding us some years ago (after the Brexit poll) that the Brits might be just happier when taking back control, even if it means they might be less rich as well?

    But I see what you mean. Problem is that the hard right so called populists in the UK created an alternative reality ... similar to the fabric of lies Trump entangled the US in, and too many of the voters got conned by the lies of various BREXITEERS.

    Not sure whether simply pointing to the facts will help a lot - while reality turns more and more pear shaped, it always will be the fault of the others, never of the politicians who planned and conducted this cruel stunt.

    It is just - humans are programmed to believe into lies - much more than they are trusting facts. This allowed over the millennia a plethora of competing religions to grow and thrive (and hey - no matter how you look at it - at best one of them can be right, right? The reminder of them clearly must be spewing lies ...) and there are always people happy to kill and to die for their version of the fiction.

    You won't convince a lot of radicalized Islamists by explaining that based on population statistics there can't possibly be 77 (or whatever) good looking and dutiful virgins around for every suicide bomber ... and you won't convince a radicalized Brexiteer that Brexit was a bad idea just by pointing to the economical disaster it creates.

    It is the essence of true believers that they ignore facts in favor of the nonsense their leaders are feeding them. Trumpistas don't believe in the dangers of the coronavirus and Brexiteers don't believe that it was their decision throwing Britain into economical turmoil. If the facts would agree with whatever their leaders tell them, than it would not be anymore a religion or a political cult, but plain boring science - right?

    Having said that - I don't know what the solution is either. Arguing with believers based on facts did never work in history. It took even the (now somewhat softer) Roman Catholic Church 500 years to acknowledge that Galileo was right.

    Fighting believers did not work either - none of the religious wars any religion or cult (like e.g. fascism) started ended with a successful long term solution.

    Tolerance does seem to work up to a certain degree, but it gets difficult of the faithful (like the Brexiteers) people want their cake and eat it too.

    The only thing we probably can do is to sit back, observe mankind getting through the next chapter of war and conflict due to consistent appalling decision making - and try to keep ourselves and our families safe.
    Last edited by BlackPeter; 30-11-2020 at 10:47 AM.
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  10. #1370
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Hmm ... wasn't it you reminding us some years ago (after the Brexit poll) that the Brits might be just happier when taking back control, even if it means they might be less rich as well?...
    True. I did suggest that some Brexiters may have plumped for Brexit at the risk of some self-impoverishment for the sake of returning powers from Brussels. Perhaps some of the Brexit supporters still applaud the prospect of a return of an England that tries to singe the King of Spain's Beard (The EU today.)

    However the final terms of Brexit and the future relationship with its neighbours may disappoint some of the Brexit voters who wanted to pick the best cherries while having their cake and eating it too I think that what will be in the offing now will only be what would have been considered a very hard Brexit and future relationship with the EU, back at the time of the referendum. The extreme Brexit Buccaneers (represented by Dominic Cummings) were in control of Boris Johnson until recently. It will probably end up as a Hard Brexit or No Deal that perhaps only half of those for who voted Brexit actually wanted. Perhaps that was inevitable as what would have been the point of Brexit if the UK remained closely aligned with the EU and subject to EU institutions?

    England and Russia are like the bookends of Europe. Will they always cycle between being Europhiles and Eurosceptics?
    Last edited by Bjauck; 30-11-2020 at 10:17 AM.

  11. #1371
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    We've already seen the stage set for blaming the EU entirely for a hard Brexit to avoid any personal responsibility, so it's time to place a check mark next to the transfer of blame task in Johnson's to-do list.

  12. #1372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
    We've already seen the stage set for blaming the EU entirely for a hard Brexit to avoid any personal responsibility, so it's time to place a check mark next to the transfer of blame task in Johnson's to-do list.
    He probably has a permanent tattoo "Non Mea Culpa" on a private part!

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