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Thread: Brexit

  1. #1201
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    ... always thought there must be a bit more about you supporting the scum of the earth. Pity you removed any doubt ...
    Who are you calling the scum of the earth BP? Those that want sovereign states? Those that want to have a feeling of identity or belonging? Those that do not want to feel isolated? Fears that people have, however irrational in your mind, are real. Not everyone is as educated as you are and as nuanced in their thinking. You the elite just do not get it. It is easy with a university education and outlook to pontificate about how people need to behave and think. But not everyone has the ability to do that. Judging those people because of their inability just makes you the same as what you call them.
    Last edited by blackcap; 29-11-2019 at 08:30 AM.

  2. #1202
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    Who are you calling the scum of the earth BP?
    Scum of the earth? Well, here are some examples what I mean: White (or any other color of) supremacists, fascists, racists, people who suppress and harass others because of their gender or because of their religious orientation. This group includes lying and corrupt politicians like Johnson and Trump. Obviously - this list is not complete ...

    While I do read your explanations for some people choosing to do the wrong thing ... I think you make it yourself too easy. Sure - people with little education and means are often easier to influence by the scumbags of this world (see above), but I am pretty sure in the depth of their heart most of them know they are doing the wrong thing ... and don't forget - the countries which now breed racism and populism are as well leading the list of the richest and best educated countries in the world.

    Why do I think that tribalism is bad? Well, just look at the list of the top problems this world faces: Climate change (no matter who started it), resource depletion, environmental pollution, wars and genocides created by hate against people with different religious believes or different looks.

    None of these problems will be solved by competing tribes erecting high walls between them - quite the opposite - all of these problems are amplified by the populist pipers.

    We need to change and push the populists back where they belong - under their rocks, or it will be too late for our civilization.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post

    We need to change and push the populists back where they belong - under their rocks, or it will be too late for our civilization.
    Interesting seems we are totally at odds here on our outlook. I believe the globalists need to be pushed back where they belong- under their rocks, or it will be too late for our civilization. That is why I am heartened by the populism that is rising globally. Because of tribalism and this inate sense of wanting to be part of a tribe, globalism will fail but if pushed through is very dangerous and will make for a far more fractured and divided civilization. Anyway lets agree to disagree here and just watch with interest what happens of there in the UK as we have no way of influencing the vote one iota.

  4. #1204
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    Have you only come to that conclusion now BP? Geez where have you been? Tribalism is as old as earth itself. It will never go away. People want to belong to a tribe, be part of a group. It is deeply seated in our psyche. Populism is rising all over the world and I am truly thankful for that. I never supported Brexit for economic reason, I am sure the most did not. It was to retain control over their own identity, not being told what to do by an overbearing body (the EU).
    Anyway it will be interesting to see what the election brings. Its not a done deal yet though the bookies give the conservatives a 1.07 shot to get the most seats and a 1.40 chance at an overall majority.
    I think the main force behind Brexit is tribalism too. Specifically the feeling for some English of English exceptionalism, which means that belonging to a co-operative Europe for them is a symbol of defeat. Also increasingly for these English people belonging to a United Kingdom in which England has to co-operate with (instead of dictate to) Scotland is a symbol of defeat.

    The trouble is many Brexiters have tried to garner sufficient extra support by not only relying on tribalism but by claiming that there will be economic benefits or by claiming expert opinions on likely Brexit costs are fear-mongering. Brexiters should ALL be proud that withdrawing from pan-European co-operation and the return to English tribalism will come with an economic and social welfare cost and price tag.

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    The anti-brexiters have not got their acts together. Corbyn, the leader of the main opposition party, is an electoral liability. He is not opposed to Brexit as he wants to renationalise swathes of the UK economy and that would fall foul of EU rules. I think under the FPP system, the Cons will romp in with a large majority. So despite it being likely according to polls that more people are in favour of remaining in the EU than leaving, the UK may end up with a Government committed to a Hard Brexit with a PM who does not keep his word and who has constantly denigrated the British parliament.

    By virtue of the First-Past-The-Post system, The will of the British people which was only ever given lip-service to, will be finally cast on the dung heap?

  6. #1206
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    Well, I guess no matter how this election goes - it sounds like the English will get what they deserve:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ir-ivan-rogers
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  7. #1207
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Well, I guess no matter how this election goes - it sounds like the English will get what they deserve:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ir-ivan-rogers
    In trying to sort out the Conservative Party's position on the EU, Cameron dragged the UK into years of years of uncertainty, dominating the UK's attention and wasting both the UK and EU's officials' time.

  8. #1208
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    This general election is a choice between the end of democracy or the end of neoliberalism

    https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandp...neoliberalism/
    “In a roaring bull market, knowledge is superfluous and experience is a handicap.”

    –Benjamin Graham”

  9. #1209
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    This general election is a choice between the end of democracy or the end of neoliberalism

    https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandp...neoliberalism/
    Fear mongering?

    I am not sure democracy ever gained full strength in the UK constitutional arrangements in the first place.

    At this stage, I think the best Corbyn can hope for is a hung parliament or a minority government.

    Ever since the Brexit referendum when "Brexit" got 52% of the vote or 37% of the total electorate, whatever the Conservative party Leadership decides upon is the "Will of the People". The British constitution has always had a particular interpretation of "democracy" and currently the UK PM has a particularly self-serving interpretation.

    It is likely Johnson will have a majority of MPs in the Commons despite the Conservatives likely getting less than 50% of the vote. Not because he has support for all of his policies, but because the alternative as PM is even less appealing than he is. Johnson then seems likely to push for a hard Brexit, which was probably never "the will of the people" and is likely, according to polls, to be even less the will of the people currently.
    Last edited by Bjauck; 08-12-2019 at 08:54 AM.

  10. #1210
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    I am certainly no friend of Corbyn, but this time the Torys would deserve a landslide defeat .... to get the bill for destroying any decency in British politics:

    They have suffered a remorseless assault on their living standards, and their values, and been told that a better world is beyond their reach. The most socially progressive generation in history have endured a rightwing culture war the Tory Brexiteers imported from the Republican right in the US. And it is this same generation who had it hammered into their skulls that there was no alternative, that this was the end of history, that their lot in life truly was all there was. Whether or not this generation turns out to vote in sufficient numbers – and the onus is on Labour to inspire them to do so – could determine whether Britain becomes the plaything of a deceitful charlatan for five years, or whether the ceaseless war against their futures finally ends.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...johnson-tories

    Lets hope the young people wake up and give Johnson what he deserves. While I am not sure I hold my breath yet, it would be nice to see the people expressing their rage against the Tory's, who destroyed their lives and their freedom, at the urns ...
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  11. #1211
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    I am certainly no friend of Corbyn, but this time the Torys would deserve a landslide defeat .... to get the bill for destroying any decency in British politics:



    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...johnson-tories

    Lets hope the young people wake up and give Johnson what he deserves. While I am not sure I hold my breath yet, it would be nice to see the people expressing their rage against the Tory's, who destroyed their lives and their freedom, at the urns ...
    Love 'em or hate 'em, The Tory Brexiteers have played a blinder though. They managed to get Labour to agree to an election in which an unpopular Labour leader and his party would always be on the back foot as a result of their prevarication on Brexit. The Cons then manipulated the campaigning by briefly changing their website to mimic an independent "fact checking" site. They have avoided the costing of their Brexit policy and Boris has avoided being interviewed by British TV's toughest interviewer. Basically they are laughing in the face of British electors!

  12. #1212
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    Clear majority for Conservatives today I reckon

    No need to be friends with anybody

    Good
    “In a roaring bull market, knowledge is superfluous and experience is a handicap.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    Clear majority for Conservatives today I reckon

    No need to be friends with anybody

    Good
    Yep it will be Full steam ahead to Sunlit Brexitland. Tallyho. Shortage of nurses as Johnny and Jilly Foreigner are no longer made welcome? Or will Boris just do whatever he wants regardless of manifesto and promise? Back to a WW2 style British land army to replace EU agricultural workers? Maybe there will be free woad distributed so Brits can paint up ready to repel foreigners?

    Where to the UK itself. As Boris says the Scots cannot have another independence Referendum will he start politically arresting SNP politicians if they start organising another? Will Boris drag the UK into a Spanish rabbit hole? Spain - the country Brits looked down on as a political and economic basket case - is now already not so bad in comparison!

    What will become of the Irish border and peace as the UK drags Northern Ireland into an unwanted Hard Brexit. Maybe many are hoping that Boris will forget about his promises...

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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    Clear majority for Conservatives today I reckon

    No need to be friends with anybody

    Good
    Almost status quo still I reckon so Brexit won't just go away

  15. #1215
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGR367 View Post
    Almost status quo still I reckon so Brexit won't just go away
    The Conservatives have promised to “Get Brexit Done.” So if they get a majority - Brexit will be done! Their main campaign was a promise that will only be kept if they change its meaning every few months. Brexit will be done on 31 January. Well actually no it will drag on for another year at least and then probably years more or negotiating replacement arrangements....

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