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  1. #1
    always learning ... BlackPeter's Avatar
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    Default Donald Trump: How low can you go?

    Just thought that it might be time to move on from the thread "presidential race". Whatever we think about its outcome, it is over and the world will need to live for some time with the consequences of its outcome.

    POTUS #45 is certainly something special - I never would have thought that I would want to use the attributes above to describe any US president, but with the Donald they seem to be the perfect fit. He gained power by creating a deep divide within his people and he was openly supported by many enemies of the free world.

    Lets see where this journey goes ...


    change note:
    I changed the thread from "Donald Trump - corrupt tyrant, liar, narcissist and / or the Antichrist?" to "Donald Trump - corrupt tyrant, liar, narcissist but still somebody's hero". This is not to give any credit to the Donald, but I think it better reflects the spirit of the ongoing discussion.

    looking for a more catchy title and cycling some ideas ... I guess just telling the truth is not good enough anymore in a post-truth society ....
    * You-know-who
    * Donald Trump: Villain, Puppet or just Cry for Help?
    * Donald Trump: How low can you go?
    Last edited by BlackPeter; 15-02-2017 at 12:08 PM.
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    always learning ... BlackPeter's Avatar
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    Actually - did anybody notice the little drama which played out on the first day of the new house of reps?

    A bunch of Republicans voted to remove the independent ethics committee which used to be crucial in identifying and outing corrupt politicians in the past. You sort of wonder why any honest politician would want to remove an independent ethics committee - wouldn't you?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/us...cs-office.html

    Good to see the public outcry ... and finally Donald Trump conceding: He told his party loyals via twitter that maybe they didn't got their priorities right.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/03/us...ttee-vote.html

    Actually - I think they got their priorities quite right. What could be more important for a corrupt politician that to remove the powers of a committee who's findings ultimately could send them into prison?

    So - all "mother and apple pie"? Hardly, though it is not yet clear what made the GOP to show already on their first day their true face.

    Is the GOP so sure that they bagged the US public? Or is the whole thing just a big gift for the Donald to allow him to demonstrate that he even fights his own people to "drain the swamp"?

    Any way - if this whole episode hasn't been staged, than it shows that the communication between the GOP and the future president is in urgent need of some improvement. Might be interesting, though to observe over the years to come "government by twitter".
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  3. #3
    Doggedly sniffing out more food Beagle's Avatar
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    Perhaps a thread title correction is appropriate ? To me he represents nearly everything that is evil and corrupt. Deep narcissism, nepotism, blatant and rampant greed and corruption to name but a few concerns... or the "Antichrist" seems to me like a more appropriate thread title.

    Our economy will get a thump from Trump, only a question of the size of it. This giant experiment by the socially and economically disaffected ends very badly in my view.
    Last edited by Beagle; 04-01-2017 at 05:31 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger View Post
    ...Our economy will get a thump from Trump, only a question of the size of it. This giant experiment by the socially and economically disaffected ends very badly in my view.
    Yep....Trumpaclysm may be on the horizon. So how can the USA bring back to the "mainstream" the economically and socially disaffected and disadvantaged? By reducing the gap that has widened in recent decades between rich and poor and which Trump will probably aggravate?

  5. #5
    Doggedly sniffing out more food Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Yep....Trumpaclysm may be on the horizon. So how can the USA bring back to the "mainstream" the economically and socially disaffected and disadvantaged? By reducing the gap that has widened in recent decades between rich and poor and which Trump will probably aggravate?
    Your average rust belt voter has forgotten that they've got used to ultra cheap stuff from Walmart a lot of which is made in China or exported to America from Chinese controlled companies made in Bangladesh or wherever the latest ultra low cost sweatshop is located. Once the trade war gets underway there's going to be even more economically disaffected and disenfranchised people as the prices for basic goods heads north fairly quickly. Looks like a recipe for further social and ethnic unrest to me....which will require more funding of the police, national guard, defense sector and department of homeland security. Interesting times coming...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger View Post
    Your average rust belt voter has forgotten that they've got used to ultra cheap stuff from Walmart a lot of which is made in China or exported to America from Chinese controlled companies made in Bangladesh or wherever the latest ultra low cost sweatshop is located. Once the trade war gets underway there's going to be even more economically disaffected and disenfranchised people as the prices for basic goods heads north fairly quickly. Looks like a recipe for further social and ethnic unrest to me....which will require more funding of the police, national guard, defense sector and department of homeland security. Interesting times coming...

    And what's going to happen to American manufacturers given they nearly all rely on importing at least some, if not all components - which will be taxed if Trump survives? Obviously they'll take a hit in sales of non-essential goods. I think either the U.S or Trump is in for a really rough ride. They won't both win.

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    FEAR n GREED JBmurc's Avatar
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    http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/03/news...ump/index.html

    Ford is canceling plans to build a new plant in Mexico. It will invest $700 million in Michigan instead, creating 700 new U.S. jobs.....

    damn if only H.Clinton was POTUS ....could have keeped up the great work of exporting jobs at the record pace previous POTUS had been happy to see happen >>>>
    People don't have ideas, ideas have people

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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    And what's going to happen to American manufacturers given they nearly all rely on importing at least some, if not all components - which will be taxed if Trump survives? Obviously they'll take a hit in sales of non-essential goods. I think either the U.S or Trump is in for a really rough ride. They won't both win.
    Perhaps globalism, global institutions and international trade have become the easier scapegoats, rather than tackling other more difficult fiscal and social ailments in the US (& the UK - and elsewhere.) NAFTA, the EU & the UN are perhaps being pilloried as easy targets, while the real causes for socio-economic disaffection lie elsewhere.

    US car manufacturers seem keen to keep on the right side of Trump - just as the car manufacturers in the UK were keen on gaining quick access to PM Theresa May's ear. Maybe they have compared notes on how to deal with leaders of populist movements.

  9. #9
    always learning ... BlackPeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBmurc View Post
    http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/03/news...ump/index.html

    Ford is canceling plans to build a new plant in Mexico. It will invest $700 million in Michigan instead, creating 700 new U.S. jobs.....

    damn if only H.Clinton was POTUS ....could have keeped up the great work of exporting jobs at the record pace previous POTUS had been happy to see happen >>>>
    Do a bit more research. Ford is not cancelling the factory in Mexico due to the Donalds magic charm, but because they found that they don't need the capacity anyway.

    Mr. Fields, however, was more circumspect on why the company had dropped its plans for the new Mexican factory. “We didn’t need it anymore,” he said. “We just don’t need the capacity anymore given the demand for small cars.”
    here is the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/03/bu...ors-trump.html

    Just one of Trumps fake news ... he is learning fast from his mentor Putin.
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    always learning ... BlackPeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger View Post
    Perhaps a thread title correction is appropriate ? To me he represents nearly everything that is evil and corrupt. Deep narcissism, nepotism, blatant and rampant greed and corruption to name but a few concerns... or the "Antichrist" seems to me like a more appropriate thread title.

    Our economy will get a thump from Trump, only a question of the size of it. This giant experiment by the socially and economically disaffected ends very badly in my view.
    Done .....
    Last edited by BlackPeter; 04-01-2017 at 09:44 PM.
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    FEAR n GREED JBmurc's Avatar
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    the "Anti-christ" geez that's a tad overboard ....Egomaniac ,Vain , poor speaker ,poor memory (he is 70!!) for sure ..... but satan ...yeah no ....I could see a devil worshiping Clintons ....

    fact is if TRUMP hadn't run for POTUS no one on her would have next to nil issue's with the guy just another Egomaniac billionare .

    ..the Guy has come out many times in the past with his political views with very little kick back .....but if you go against the socialistic movement then get ready for the HATE ....
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    FEAR n GREED JBmurc's Avatar
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    Martin Armstrong-

    all these people calling Trump racist or Nazi, are just insane. They should go to Europe and see how people are living in fear because of the refugees. And as for Trump building his wall, well they should take notice of London. They are looking to build a steel wall all around London to protect it from terrorist attacks. These same type of people welcomed the refugees and allowed terrorists to infiltrate Europe. This very same reasoning they are now applying to the United States and calling Trump a racist because he wants to block people coming from those countries in the Middle East. It is one thing to accept genuine families. Not 25 year old males pretending to be children.
    I am sorry. I will have no problem calling Trump out for creating a police state. But I am willing to stand and observe before I jump on words. As they always say – actions speak louder than words. We will see. None of what Obama said he would do from closing Guantanamo Bay prison to shutting down the NSA unconstitutional abuse of George Bush ever took place. We just have to see. The very tolerance these people say Trump does not have, is exactly what they practice concerning anyone who disagrees with them.

    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/i...against-trump/


    Soro's major funder of anti Trump movement ...

    http://thefreethoughtproject.com/sor...mp-protesters/

    Donald Trump's inauguration
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta7jv2BcA5I
    Last edited by JBmurc; 05-01-2017 at 12:08 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBmurc View Post
    Martin Armstrong-

    all these people calling Trump racist or Nazi, are just insane. They should go to Europe and see how people are living in fear because of the refugees. And as for Trump building his wall, well they should take notice of London. They are looking to build a steel wall all around London to protect it from terrorist attacks. These same type of people welcomed the refugees and allowed terrorists to infiltrate Europe. This very same reasoning they are now applying to the United States and calling Trump a racist because he wants to block people coming from those countries in the Middle East. It is one thing to accept genuine families. Not 25 year old males pretending to be children.
    I am sorry. I will have no problem calling Trump out for creating a police state. But I am willing to stand and observe before I jump on words. As they always say – actions speak louder than words. We will see. None of what Obama said he would do from closing Guantanamo Bay prison to shutting down the NSA unconstitutional abuse of George Bush ever took place. We just have to see. The very tolerance these people say Trump does not have, is exactly what they practice concerning anyone who disagrees with them.

    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/i...against-trump/


    Soro's major funder of anti Trump movement ...

    http://thefreethoughtproject.com/sor...mp-protesters/

    Donald Trump's inauguration
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta7jv2BcA5I
    Well put, not that the people here wish to consider another point of view. Antichrist is ridiculous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBmurc View Post
    Martin Armstrong-

    all these people calling Trump racist or Nazi, are just insane. They should go to Europe and see how people are living in fear because of the refugees. And as for Trump building his wall, well they should take notice of London. They are looking to build a steel wall all around London to protect it from terrorist attacks. These same type of people welcomed the refugees and allowed terrorists to infiltrate Europe. This very same reasoning they are now applying to the United States and calling Trump a racist because he wants to block people coming from those countries in the Middle East. It is one thing to accept genuine families. Not 25 year old males pretending to be children.
    Trump has been in trouble before for racial discrimination which is why he is called racist - nothing to do with his immigration policies. And proposing the building of a wall in the south of Nth. America to stop Mexicans has nothing to do with stopping terrorists. There's little point in posting such silly articles.

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    FEAR n GREED JBmurc's Avatar
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    Default Obama's Legacy

    “I would have no problem. I would love that. That would be wonderful,” Trump said in response to Howard Stern asking his daughter Ivanka Trump if she would date a black man during a 2005 interview.

    T-Unfit-Obama-Legacy-600-LA-2.jpg
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    [QUOTE=JBmurc;650293]Martin Armstrong-

    all these people calling Trump racist or Nazi, are just insane. They should go to Europe and see how people are living in fear because of the refugees. And as for Trump building his wall, well they should take notice of London. They are looking to build a steel wall all around London to protect it from terrorist attacks. These same type of people welcomed the refugees and allowed terrorists to infiltrate Europe. This very same reasoning they are now applying to the United States and calling Trump a racist because he wants to block people coming from those countries in the Middle East. It is one thing to accept genuine families. Not 25 year old males pretending to be children.
    I am sorry. I will have no problem calling Trump out for creating a police state. But I am willing to stand and observe before I jump on words. As they always say – actions speak louder than words. We will see. None of what Obama said he would do from closing Guantanamo Bay prison to shutting down the NSA unconstitutional abuse of George Bush ever took place. We just have to see. The very tolerance these people say Trump does not have, is exactly what they practice concerning anyone who disagrees with them.

    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/i...against-trump/



    Thanks JB for the link to Martin Armstrong which you posted on another link. I spent hours reading his blog which is fascinating. I think his analysis is really good and interesting, however I don’t like his personal beliefs. I need to separate the two. A person can be a very successful economist, businessman or politician or whatever and can also be sexist, racist, a bully or any sort of unpleasant person to deal with if you are don’t belong to the ‘in” group and/or don’t agree with him.

    I don’t like his personal beliefs because I see equality as an desirable goal and I don’t like sexism, racism, classism or any other – isms including narcissism that oppress groups of people.
    It is great to debate the issues but don’t attack and belittle people in order to win your argument, and in his discussion of people who disagree with Trump he scores highly on 2 below. Saying or acting as if you hate, dislike or fear the group.

    http://crooksandliars.com/kenneth-qu...ms-racism-sexi
    So here you go, if you do any of these things below in connection with your interactions with or discussion of a particular group of people based on their demographic characteristics (race, gender, age, religion, sexual identity, ethnicity, national origin, etc.), then you are entering into territory where you are being offensive and morally wrong. This doesn’t make you a racist, sexist, etc., automatically, but it does push you in that direction and you should examine your actions, words, etc.

    1. Directing physical or emotional harm or wishing harm upon the group
    2. Saying or acting as if you hate, dislike or fear the group
    3. Denying rights to members of the group
    4. Refusing to hire, associate with or otherwise interact with members of the group, including segregating the group in society
    5. Opposing government programs that disproportionately help a group that faces a history or present marked by discrimination or mistreatment
    6. Treating members of the group differently than you treat members of your group
    7. Treating everyone in the group the same–even if the treatment is positive
    8. Saying you know better than the group does what is happening to them or what is best for them
    9. Denying real-life experiences or statistically-proven challenges that the group disproportionately faces
    10. Use of language that is derogatory towards the group, even if you don’t agree that it is derogatory or that you didn't know was derogatory
    11. Ignorance of the history, challenges, language and culture that causes the group problems
    12. Being blind to the differences between the group and other groups
    13. Stating that your group faces the same problems as a group that statistically faces more of the problem or more intense versions of the problem
    14. Telling members of the group that they shouldn’t be “sensitive” about problems that they face
    15. Using the term “politically correct” (or some variation) to dismiss complaints from the group about discrimination or prejudice directed at them
    16. Use of words that specifically or through implication imply that the group is inferior or disfavored
    17. Failure to include members of the group in your media portrayals (unless warranted), focus groups, advertising targets, voter outreach, etc.

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    Mutual admiration societies like the one created here to salve the minds of the left losers who were so sure that they would drive Trump out and have a victory for once, are common and have been around for years. Usually they become so heated that their arse catches fire and that distracts them long enough to see them drift into oblivion while the rest of the world get on with it.

  18. #18
    always learning ... BlackPeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craic View Post
    Mutual admiration societies like the one created here to salve the minds of the left losers who were so sure that they would drive Trump out and have a victory for once, are common and have been around for years. Usually they become so heated that their arse catches fire and that distracts them long enough to see them drift into oblivion while the rest of the world get on with it.
    Craig, I am surprised that you still don't get that this has nothing to do with Left and Right. Trumps advertised policies (well, if you can find some he still sticks with) are not particularly hard right, but only populist, while admittedly his actions seem to be designed to make the rich richer (tax cuts for the billionaires) and the poor people die earlier (take their health insurance).

    This discussion is not about the political spectrum, but about decent people highlighting the actions of a liar and a deeply corrupted politician.

    And yes - there are corrupt politicians on both sides of the political spectrum, but this does not make it right to trust the biggest gator to drain the swamp.

    It is important to keep the crooked actions of Trump and his buddies in peoples minds. And yes - you are right, it won't change the world immediately, but given that Italy managed to get after 12 years rid of Berlusconi and the world managed after 12 years to get rid of Adolf Hitler ... I am sure, that while it will be a painful time to come for everybody (but a few selected rich), I am sure the world will get rid of him and will be better for it.

    Just let me ask you a question: Given that members of your family died fighting for free speech, equality, against racism and for human rights - why are you supporting a crook who wants to turn the clock back to the dark ages of fascism?
    Last edited by BlackPeter; 05-01-2017 at 10:37 AM. Reason: removed bracket surplus to requirements
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBmurc View Post
    “I would have no problem. I would love that. That would be wonderful,” Trump said in response to Howard Stern asking his daughter Ivanka Trump if she would date a black man during a 2005 interview.

    T-Unfit-Obama-Legacy-600-LA-2.jpg
    Just because Trump says something does not mean it is true. As far as I am concerned Trump has very little integrity and I don’t believe or trust what he says. Trump says what is convenient at the time and that is the issue. For me this discussion is about the truth and what is true and what is not. This article may be exaggerating that only 9% of what Trump says is true or mostly true, but even if 25% is true or mostly true that is a very sad state affairs for the world. That means 75% to 89% of what Trump says is lies or deliberately misleading. That means that most of the time you cannot trust or believe him.

    We are living in a culture of denial, lies and deception and that is the issue. I expect better from our leaders. How can America be great if the best of the politicians are lying nearly half the time?

    http://www.politicususa.com/2016/03/31/ninety-one-percent-donald-trump-false.html

    Donald Trump, the Republican front-runner, is at the bottom of the Politifact list with a sad 9% of true or mostly true statements. Just 9% of the things Donald Trump says are mostly related to the truth.
    What does it mean that the man who tells the most lies is the most popular with the Republican base? This is a question I would be asking myself if I were a Republican strategist. The answer is not simple, in spite of the escalating finger pointing on the right. But I would direct them toward their propensity for denial, lack of accountability, and refusal to take responsibility for their own policies.

    Republicans started off by not holding their own to the fire of accountability and those justifications and that sense of entitlement have been the only trickle down they’ve seen. Now they have a party full of voters who do not want to deal with reality, who feel entitled to have privileges over minorities, and who love to be lied to. Think of the aging wealthy man who believes the young girl is with him because he’s so hot. That’s the base level deception and emotional motivation driving the Republican party voters – they want someone who makes them feel good about themselves, who holds up a mirror that makes them hot, right and rich.

    They love the lie because ideologies comfort the voter. Everyone wants to feel like they are right, righteous, and morally superior. The problem comes when people can’t accept reality because reality says they were not right. And instead of admitting that and adjusting course, they demand that everyone get blamed equally while still claiming they never made a mistake. (And the “fourth estate” not only allows this but plays dumb regarding basic facts in order to make this work.) This level of petulant avoidance of reality is what got the Republican party to the point where their base loves the biggest liar the best.

    They don’t care that Donald Trump lies; they love him because his lies soothe them. His lies appease them. His lies make them feel justified and righteous. His lies make them feel good about who they are. The voters are the children who do not want to be grown ups and the grown ups in the party have indulged them and fed them candy to keep from having to parent, and now they are stuck with a monster of a child.

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    Though Donald Trump has been exposed because of the election, trumping really starts come the 20th of January '17. So hold your fire and keep your powder dry until it becomes obvious he's not really good after all. At least he's not that Duterte guy eliminating all drug addicts/pushers/suppliers without the benefit of a trial.

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