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  1. #21
    Doggedly sniffing out more food Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Done .....
    Thanks BP. Maybe the correct answer to your thread title is now, "all of the preceding"

    Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
    Well put, not that the people here wish to consider another point of view. Antichrist is ridiculous.
    Okay it is a little OTT and highly speculative BUT you never know do you ? To me he embodies just about everything there is in being evil. Even makes horrible disparaging remarks about his own daughter Ivanka. Just my opinion, everyone is entitled to their own mate.
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  2. #22
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    Huge defense forces cheering for Trump at Army Vs Navy game ...recently

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONZWKXY0hGI


    And years earlier when Obama was there ?? >>>>>>>>>>

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzEqbE_Jmn4
    Last edited by JBmurc; 05-01-2017 at 03:06 PM.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBmurc View Post
    Huge defense forces cheering for Trump at Army Vs Navy game ...recently

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONZWKXY0hGI


    And years earlier when Obama was there ?? >>>>>>>>>>

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzEqbE_Jmn4
    Trump's deliberately getting off-side with China and wants to give a bit of boost to the arms race - when the disadvantaged in the USA become more disadvantaged, Trump will give them a job in the armed forces. Nuremberg PA ought to prepare their parade grounds...

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
    ... Antichrist is ridiculous.
    Thank you for this contribution - actually made me think.

    If you come from a religious perspective, you might be right. I am no specialist on this subject but I suppose that Trump is just a normal (though very indecent and morally corrupt) mortal. We can agree on that.

    Now - it was always customary to call very bad people "devil". Mugabe earned this title. So did Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin and many more.

    Question is whether Trump reached already the threshold to deserve this title. Well, lets ask the man himself:

    Trump did set the bar by calling his political opponent Hillary Clinton "the devil".

    http://fortune.com/2016/10/09/presid...clinton-devil/

    Given that Trump is a much worse liar (you don't need to do a lot of research to find that out), given that he is much more corrupted than Clinton (actually it is now the Trump foundation which is under investigation), and given that Trump is (as he proudly admitted) a sexual predator - if he calls Hillary the devil, what would be an appropriate name for him?
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  5. #25
    Doggedly sniffing out more food Beagle's Avatar
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    Top post BP, I couldn't agree more.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post

    Given that Trump is a much worse liar (you don't need to do a lot of research to find that out), given that he is much more corrupted than Clinton (actually it is now the Trump foundation which is under investigation), and given that Trump is (as he proudly admitted) a sexual predator - if he calls Hillary the devil, what would be an appropriate name for him?
    Certainly not the Anti-Christ. He just doesn't match the biblical description.

    Then I saw another beast that rose out of the earth; it had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. It exercises all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and it makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound had been healed. It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in the sight of all; and by the signs that it is allowed to perform on behalf of the beast, it deceives the inhabitants of earth, telling them to make an image for the beast that had been wounded by the sword and yet lived; and it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast so that the image of the beast could even speak and cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell who does not have the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.

     Revelation 13:1117 NRSV (1989)


    And I saw three foul spirits like frogs coming from the mouth of the dragon, from the mouth of the beast, and from the mouth of the false prophet. These are demonic spirits, performing signs, who go abroad to the kings of the whole world, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty.

     Revelation 16:1314 NRSV (1989)


    Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against the rider on the horse and against his army. And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed in its presence the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

     Revelation 19:1920 NRSV (1989)


    And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

     Revelation 20:10 NRSV (1989)

    I can't wait for the real one to arrive. Might get in a bigger telly, like they do for the Olympics and world cup.
    Last edited by fungus pudding; 05-01-2017 at 05:26 PM.

  7. #27
    Doggedly sniffing out more food Beagle's Avatar
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    My Dad was a Presbyterian minister for over 40 years and never preached on Revelation. When asked why he said there were so many different ways if could be interpreted...so I won't try either.
    Last edited by Beagle; 05-01-2017 at 05:33 PM.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Certainly not the Anti-Christ. He just doesn't match the biblical description.

    Then I saw another beast that rose out of the earth; it had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. It exercises all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and it makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound had been healed. It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in the sight of all; and by the signs that it is allowed to perform on behalf of the beast, it deceives the inhabitants of earth, telling them to make an image for the beast that had been wounded by the sword and yet lived; and it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast so that the image of the beast could even speak and cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell who does not have the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.

    — Revelation 13:11–17 NRSV (1989)


    And I saw three foul spirits like frogs coming from the mouth of the dragon, from the mouth of the beast, and from the mouth of the false prophet. These are demonic spirits, performing signs, who go abroad to the kings of the whole world, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty.

    — Revelation 16:13–14 NRSV (1989)


    Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against the rider on the horse and against his army. And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed in its presence the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

    — Revelation 19:19–20 NRSV (1989)


    And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

    — Revelation 20:10 NRSV (1989)

    I can't wait for the real one to arrive. Might get in a bigger telly, like they do for the Olympics and world cup.
    Hi FP - you are probably more proficient with the bible (and certainly with an English language copy) than I am, so I take your expert advise. As well - I have no intent in turning this thread into a religious discussion.

    On the other hand ... anybody who watched relevant TV Programs (Buffy springs to mind, or the Charmed ones) knows that demons can change their shape and form - so really "How do you know that Trump is not the Anti Christ" ?

    More seriously (for religious people) ... just check the bible - as far as I remember from my religious studies appears the devil in many different forms. He tempted Jesus during his 40 days in the desert in human form and he appears in the Genesis as snake (successfully tempting Eve). I think just trusting that he appears as described in the verses of revelation might be a bit risky ... better consult your local priest .
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Hi FP - you are probably more proficient with the bible (and certainly with an English language copy) than I am, so I take your expert advise.
    I doubt it. That's straight from the Wikipedia scriptures.

  10. #30
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    Actually - just consulted expert advise ... and happy to report that FP is right: Donald Trump is NOT the Anti-Christ (as described in the bible).

    http://www.prophecyproof.org/2016/06...mp-antichrist/

    There are apparently two certain indicators:

    1) The Antichrist does not desire women, but Donald Trump does (as we all know, he loves to touch their genitalia without consent, while the Anti Christ would never do that (with or without consent)

    “Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.” (Dan 11:37)
    2) The Antichrist is much more charismatic than Donald Trump ever will be.
    (sorry - no citation on that, you just need to trust the expert)

    So glad we could sort this tricky problem out. Still - I think it is a great question, and hey - we don't need to tell the others that we now know the answer. I like the title of this thread ...
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Actually - just consulted expert advise ... and happy to report that FP is right: Donald Trump is NOT the Anti-Christ (as described in the bible).
    See - told ya'.

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    Natch ; no pictures in the Bible and its not a comic, doesn't tweet; but some maintain a hotline from heaven(and a cold wire to hell?) and more are entertained by following trump then JC it seems

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    I'm amused that you all even tried to justify your position with this fuzzy logic, states a great deal. I will not get into specifics on that subject as minds seem closed.

    Let see if a little reality will result in something else.

    Are you really all in a bubble that you show a general lack of society and personal awareness, surely not. I'm sure you all live in the real world and how do you assess people you interact with..everything they say or actions & intent, I would suggest the later is the over-riding factor.

    Nothing Trump has done or said to date is any worse than I have heard and seen in so many people I have met through my entire life. Be it in non profits, social services, public sector, corporates, politics or family. People are flawed, being self absorbed and situationally honest are as common as a common cold. People struggle to cope with people that are different..the seeds for why we have so much racist opinions in this world. Sexist comments, women and men, like racist remarks, attitudes I have heard in every race I have met in life. I have met only a handful of what appear fundamentally honest people with sound values, based on my interactions with them.

    Sure Trumps sound bites are surprising as public office usually is so PC that we do not hear it in pubic. People who do not state their agenda or provide incomplete information are as dishonest as anyone. The whole process of plausible deniability is inherently dishonest in public service.

    Most people will judge Trump on his tangible actions going forward not all this media fluster prior to him even being in office. If he has a past he will pay for it now..so be it. Media is bought and paid for and you just lap it up as it suit your purpose. I judged my team members based on their results in the job, not their flaws and baggage unless it effects their role.

    For those here whom I suspect simply know better..you are a pack of hypocrites, don't feel bad... your not alone :-)

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
    ...
    Are you really all in a bubble that you show a general lack of society and personal awareness, surely not. I'm sure you all live in the real world and how do you assess people you interact with..everything they say or actions & intent, I would suggest the later is the over-riding factor.
    We all live in bubbles to greater or lesser extents...we mix with friends who are often of similar background and outlook. Many of us too mix in employment bubbles. And we twitter and facebook with similar groups of people. I hope Trumps actions prove my opinion of him wrong.

    Nothing Trump has done or said to date is any worse than I have heard and seen in so many people I have met through my entire life. Be it in non profits, social services, public sector, corporates, politics or family. People are flawed, being self absorbed and situationally honest are as common as a common cold. People struggle to cope with people that are different..the seeds for why we have so much racist opinions in this world. Sexist comments, women and men, like racist remarks, attitudes I have heard in every race I have met in life. I have met only a handful of what appear fundamentally honest people with sound values, based on my interactions with them. ...
    Indeed I have met people who are inconsistent, racists, misogynists, liars and traitors etc. They have been different people or maybe several negatives in one person, so for one man to have all these characteristics is -well - greedy! Perhaps we should expect more of a Head of Government at least at the beginning of his term?

    For those here whom I suspect simply know better..you are a pack of hypocrites, don't feel bad... your not alone :-)
    Yeah I have been a hypocrite at times - but debatable if I have known better but at least I am not President of a Superpower.
    Last edited by Bjauck; 05-01-2017 at 08:10 PM.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
    I'm amused that you all even tried to justify your position with this fuzzy logic, states a great deal. I will not get into specifics on that subject as minds seem closed.

    Let see if a little reality will result in something else.

    Are you really all in a bubble that you show a general lack of society and personal awareness, surely not. I'm sure you all live in the real world and how do you assess people you interact with..everything they say or actions & intent, I would suggest the later is the over-riding factor.

    Nothing Trump has done or said to date is any worse than I have heard and seen in so many people I have met through my entire life.
    Maybe so, but this clown is about to become the President of the U.S.A. Go back and review footage of his behaviour and statements during his campaign. Watch his TV interview. Listen to his comments on Megan Kelly. What about 'the knowledge that he knows' (his words) that he was going to tell the world about yesterday - didn't happen. Not one thing he has said is showing one grain of truth. There is no need to worry about media fluster, as you call it. You can find and see comments straight from the deranged, benighted, megalomaniac yourself. There's nothing funny or amusing about this fool as some seem to think. There is danger.

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    I would liken Trump to a Satyr.

    I see Wikileaks is good now in Trump-land. The old Trump would have put Assange in the electric chair! I wonder what his position will change to next month?

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
    I'm amused that you all even tried to justify your position with this fuzzy logic, states a great deal. I will not get into specifics on that subject as minds seem closed.
    So glad we could amuse you. What better can you do with a Trump supporter?

    And good observation re the closed minds - actually Trump observed himself that his supporters have extremely closed minds:

    Trump:
    I could 'shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters'
    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/23/po...ebody-support/

    That's what you meant - isn't it? Quite frightening that anybody could still support this guy ... and its nearly half of the US population. So many closed minds .

    Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
    Nothing Trump has done or said to date is any worse than I have heard and seen in so many people I have met through my entire life. Be it in non profits, social services, public sector, corporates, politics or family. People are flawed, being self absorbed and situationally honest are as common as a common cold. People struggle to cope with people that are different..the seeds for why we have so much racist opinions in this world. Sexist comments, women and men, like racist remarks, attitudes I have heard in every race I have met in life. I have met only a handful of what appear fundamentally honest people with sound values, based on my interactions with them.
    Yep, I know some people with some of these flaws as well, though I haven't yet seen that many flaws combined in one sick personality. Never met anybody boasting to grab female genitalia (and this without consent), but I am sure that Trump is not the only sex offender - and never met anybody boasting that he could shoot people without being punished ... but maybe I don't move in the distinguished circles you do ...

    They say - if you want to know who a person really is, don't let them suffer, but give them power. I am afraid I don't want to know what kind of person Mr Trump is - and it is absolutely idiotic to give the control of the most powerful nation in the world including a multiple worldwide overkill capacity into the hands of a man who only loves himself. How are you going to appraise him if he uses this power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
    For those here whom I suspect simply know better..you are a pack of hypocrites, don't feel bad... your not alone :-)
    Welcome in the club!
    Last edited by BlackPeter; 05-01-2017 at 09:15 PM.
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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Trump's deliberately getting off-side with China and wants to give a bit of boost to the arms race - when the disadvantaged in the USA become more disadvantaged, Trump will give them a job in the armed forces. Nuremberg PA ought to prepare their parade grounds...
    Right what I seen is a crowd full of patriotic men and women that love the country and new POTUS

    ....But as usually on here ... the same Nazi - Hitler - anti-christ BS rhetoric ....IMHO give the guy a chance before rating him the devil ...

    It was well known the bulk of the trumps media grabbing headlines was to gain attention ...as to why we see a much different trump now he's elected .. the Guy would fill stadiums while peers had issues filling conference rooms....


    As to the Trump-the devil doesn't even come close to Killary Kilton.. I'm sure she had him on speed dial ..
    http://www. national review.com/article/441441/hillary-clinton-nasty-corrupt-evil-crooked-ruthless
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBmurc View Post
    Right what I seen is a crowd full of patriotic men and women that love the country and new POTUS

    ....But as usually on here ... the same Nazi - Hitler - anti-christ BS rhetoric ....IMHO give the guy a chance before rating him the devil ...

    It was well known the bulk of the trumps media grabbing headlines was to gain attention ...as to why we see a much different trump now he's elected .. the Guy would fill stadiums while peers had issues filling conference rooms....

    I can't see a different Trump. Look at the nonsense he's spouting about Jackie Evancho sales. The man is a lunatic - in love with himself. Biggest problem is, and will continue to be, he believes everything he says. Megalomaniacs are never wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBmurc View Post
    ...
    It was well known the bulk of the trumps media grabbing headlines was to gain attention ...as to why we see a much different trump now he's elected .. the Guy would fill stadiums while peers had issues filling conference rooms....

    As to the Trump-the devil doesn't even come close to Killary Kilton.. I'm sure she had him on speed dial ..
    http://www. national review.com/article/441441/hillary-clinton-nasty-corrupt-evil-crooked-ruthless
    When the circus comes to town, they fill stadiums. I still would not want the elephant or clown to be president of the USA.

    Give me the boring, truthful person who tells me what they actually intend to do, and I would prefer them as President as I wave the Circus performer goodbye after his entertaining show.

    An example since the election - Trump has flip-flopped already over wikileaks - not because the threat of Wikileaks to the USA has changed but because of the effect on Trump and his campaign's relationship with the Russians. He is still a loose cannon!

    I likened Trump to a randy Satyr. Clinton was uninspiring but the lesser of two evils imo.

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