sharetrader
Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 48

Thread: ETF's

  1. #1
    Corporate
    Guest

    Default ETF's

    Hi everyone

    I'm wondering whether anyone has experience investing in ETF's listed on the NZX?

    I've just had a quick look at FNZ (NZX50) and USF (S&P500) and they don't seems to have much liquidity. Does anyone have any alternatives for investing in an index?

    Cheers,
    C

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    581

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Corporate View Post
    Hi everyone

    I'm wondering whether anyone has experience investing in ETF's listed on the NZX?

    I've just had a quick look at FNZ (NZX50) and USF (S&P500) and they don't seems to have much liquidity. Does anyone have any alternatives for investing in an index?

    Cheers,
    C
    Hey Corporate

    You could invest in all the NZX ETFs through SuperLife's managed funds - https://superlife.co.nz/investments/investment-options

    Fees are similar & you can exit at the current unit price (liquidity shouldn't be an issue). However, I use them with a long term investment timeframe while dollar-cost averaging along the way...

    If you're looking to trade, these instruments may not be suited.. you could look to the ASX? They'll probably have more depth & options..

    Just a few ideas..

    Cheers

  3. #3
    Aspiring to be an Awesome Bear
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    In the Woods
    Posts
    1,588

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by huxley View Post
    Hey Corporate

    You could invest in all the NZX ETFs through SuperLife's managed funds - https://superlife.co.nz/investments/investment-options

    Fees are similar & you can exit at the current unit price (liquidity shouldn't be an issue). However, I use them with a long term investment timeframe while dollar-cost averaging along the way...

    If you're looking to trade, these instruments may not be suited.. you could look to the ASX? They'll probably have more depth & options..

    Just a few ideas..

    Cheers

    I was looking at getting some NZX ETFs through Smartshare but to exit them it sounded like you had to sell them yourself on the NZX?? I may well be wrong in thinking that, maybe you can exit them through Smartshares at the current unit price just like you describe for SuperLife?? I will look into Superlife options thanks

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    581

    Default

    You're correct. If you hold the ETF through Smartshares you'll need to sell them on market and pay brokerage. The SuperLife funds pool investor's $ and invest in the underlying ETFs - as a result they'll have a small allocation in cash as new funds are either invested or withdrawn. You'll want to check out the fund management fee. Oh, and you'll probably notice the whole thing is owned by and run by the NZX limited...

  5. #5
    Legend peat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Whanganui, New Zealand.
    Posts
    6,435

    Default

    Perhaps if you used all three of the NZ ETF's you would get enough liquidity. FNZ (Top Fifty) ; TNZ (Top 10) and MDZ (Mid Cap) are all thin as you say but combined may satisfy some situations. They seem to track their NTA closely enough. I suspect that there is an informal market maker so viewing the turnover may not be the full picture with regards to liquidity. see clause 19 in the Non-Standard designation waiver for these ETF listings.
    I havent had any experience with these particular ETF's but I have queried the providers on a few specific points in the past, and do appreciate you raising them as an indexing option.
    I wonder how could one test the liquidity without wasting money on transaction costs. I will have a look at the depth over the next week and comment further later.

  6. #6
    Reincarnated Panthera Snow Leopard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Private Universe
    Posts
    5,853

    Red face This may help, then again it may not & apologies for the layout

    The approx average daily turnover for the last N trading days :

    Code 16 day 64 day 256 day

    FNZ $114,136 $209,783 $233,357

    MDZ $39,081 $69,211 $94,909

    TNZ $46,155 $83,699 $92,852


    Turnover varies widely from day to day and the above will include off-market transfers.

    Best Wishes
    Paper Tiger
    om mani peme hum

  7. #7
    Corporate
    Guest

    Default

    Thanks all

    This is for long term investment so I will check out Superlife

  8. #8
    Guru
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Auckland, , New Zealand.
    Posts
    3,227

    Default

    Bids
    Quantity No. Price
    684 1 396
    500 1 394.8
    45,000 1 394.1
    100,000 1 393.6

    Asks
    Price No. Quantity
    397.1 1 45,000
    397.5 1 1,000
    397.6 1 100,000

    The above are the quotes for MDZ at present. As I understand it the 100,000 and 45,000 buy bid and sell offer are in fact the NZX. This is applicable for all their ETF's although for different quantities. They adjust up and down with the NTA. If you sell into their bid then in a short period of time they will adjust the bid quantity back up to what it was. This, to me, gives enough liquidity but you have to accept their bid.
    Last edited by 777; 23-01-2017 at 08:42 AM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Toulouse - Luzern's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Wellington, , .
    Posts
    519

    Smile It all depends

    Quote Originally Posted by Corporate View Post
    Hi everyone

    I'm wondering whether anyone has experience investing in ETF's listed on the NZX?

    I've just had a quick look at FNZ (NZX50) and USF (S&P500) and they don't seems to have much liquidity. Does anyone have any alternatives for investing in an index?

    Cheers,
    C
    Cheers Corporate

    IMHO It all depends eg on your time frame, objectives, and what others eg. world markets, FX, Trump, et al are doing while you are investing / invested.

    My experience for what it is worth ...

    When the new range of ETF came out I expected to be involved but in the event am not. NZX seemed to take many years to work through to any decision on a more extensive range of ETF.

    The thing for me is the very small NZX volumes = no effective market, as many days no trades in some of the ETF.

    I get the SuperLife option that the last traded price applies, however it seems to me that supply and demand sets the price and as there is often no demand you dont have price action impetus in your favour.

    Time gone by I invested in MZY on the NZX. At the time I was well satisfied***.

    *** I found these passive markets very good when the market is in a rising uptrend but no place to be on a falling market as the investment is passive with the index.

    Many will find it hard to hold on to an investment when prices start to fall rapidly.

    To get over the very thin liquidity that I found (almost no market at all) of ETF on NZX,
    I also invested in SPDR and IShares on the ASX

    STW SPDR ASX 200
    IHK Ishares Hong Kong
    ISG Ishares Singapore

    My experience with the ASX ones was:

    XXX as above for MZY

    Plus

    High brokerage fees and FX variations (eg NZD AUD and and SGD) plus the frequent and rapid up and down changes in international outlooks and markets post GFC resulted in poor returns relative to high risk at the time IMHO.

    Result was I exited with minor profits.

    Over to each of us to decide based on our view of situation at the time of investment ...

  10. #10
    Aspiring to be an Awesome Bear
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    In the Woods
    Posts
    1,588

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Toulouse - Luzern View Post
    Cheers Corporate

    IMHO It all depends eg on your time frame, objectives, and what others eg. world markets, FX, Trump, et al are doing while you are investing / invested.

    My experience for what it is worth ...

    When the new range of ETF came out I expected to be involved but in the event am not. NZX seemed to take many years to work through to any decision on a more extensive range of ETF.

    The thing for me is the very small NZX volumes = no effective market, as many days no trades in some of the ETF.

    I get the SuperLife option that the last traded price applies, however it seems to me that supply and demand sets the price and as there is often no demand you dont have price action impetus in your favour.

    Time gone by I invested in MZY on the NZX. At the time I was well satisfied***.

    *** I found these passive markets very good when the market is in a rising uptrend but no place to be on a falling market as the investment is passive with the index.

    Many will find it hard to hold on to an investment when prices start to fall rapidly.

    To get over the very thin liquidity that I found (almost no market at all) of ETF on NZX,
    I also invested in SPDR and IShares on the ASX

    STW SPDR ASX 200
    IHK Ishares Hong Kong
    ISG Ishares Singapore

    My experience with the ASX ones was:

    XXX as above for MZY

    Plus

    High brokerage fees and FX variations (eg NZD AUD and and SGD) plus the frequent and rapid up and down changes in international outlooks and markets post GFC resulted in poor returns relative to high risk at the time IMHO.

    Result was I exited with minor profits.

    Over to each of us to decide based on our view of situation at the time of investment ...
    Thanks for sharing that, very helpful, cheers

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •