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Thread: AIR - Air NZ.

  1. #18671
    Legend peat's Avatar
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    giving staff shares before a rights issue !!! lol

    i ran the very first Air New Zealand Staff Share scheme when Brierley owned most of it - beck in the early 90's. The staff paid about $2.14 per share from memory. Obviously a very different capital base now

    ok so not issued until 4th quarter but this is crazy. they're losing a billion dollars in the next few years and they give staff a bonus
    Last edited by peat; 18-06-2021 at 09:10 AM.
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  2. #18672
    Go The Warriors "This Year!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn Munroe View Post
    An old coal burning Boeing 757 freighter with a Greek tail registration crossed the Tasman last night.

    I am puzzled why Cullen Airlines don't convert some of their 777's sitting out in the paddock into freighters.

    Boop boop de do
    Marilyn
    That aircraft is owned by airwork.They have contracts with various organisations including Fed ex and DHL etc...they also fly a 737 to Melbourne several times a week, as well as 737's around NZ and for Toll in Aussie.
    Air's 777-200s are gone won't return...they will ethier be sold scrapped or returned to the lesser.
    777-300s would say there is significant uncertainty over the future of these aircraft too.
    Have heard through the grapevine that they have been quite impressed with the freight carrying capacity and performance of the 787's.

  3. #18673
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dassets View Post
    NTA goes to zero depending on how the tax treatment flows through to NTA.
    That's how I see it too. I think they will try and carry the tax losses as a credit and try and make the balance sheet look less stretched. Tax losses are of course only worth something as an offset against future taxable profits and I think its anyone's guess when they might be profitable again. FY23 is probably another sizeable loss would be my guess.

    I think its crystal clear the capital raise is just a donation or lets call it a tax payment to the Govt to help maintain critical transport infrastructure. Sheet the cost back where it belongs I reckon. The Govt is still collecting hundreds of millions per annum in PAYE and GST from AIR so let them fund the airline from that !

    Pretty easy to find more worthy cases for one's philanthropic activities than AIR.

    Throw a dart at the share market page from the Herald to find a better investment, you can't miss !
    Last edited by Beagle; 18-06-2021 at 10:40 AM.
    Ecclesiastes 11:2: “Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.
    Ben Graham - In the short run the market is a voting machine but in the long run the market is a weighing machine

  4. #18674
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    That's how I see it too. I think they will try and carry the tax losses as a credit and try and make the balance sheet look less stretched. Tax losses are of course only worth something as an offset against future taxable profits and I think its anyone's guess when they might be profitable again. FY23 is probably another sizeable loss would be my guess.

    I think its crystal clear the capital raise is just a donation or lets call it a tax payment to the Govt to help maintain critical transport infrastructure. Sheet the cost back where it belongs I reckon. The Govt is still collecting hundreds of millions per annum in PAYE and GST from AIR so let them fund the airline from that !

    Pretty easy to find more worthy cases for one's philanthropic activities than AIR.
    Beagle wasn't the PAYE deferred ? Can anyone do that ?

  5. #18675
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    Default Some wild speculation seeing as its Friday

    Quote Originally Posted by stoploss View Post
    Beagle wasn't the PAYE deferred ? Can anyone do that ?
    I'm not aware of that mate, (not following closely anymore as its not worth my time). I would think it could only be deferred with Govt agreement. If they're doing that they really are incredibly desperate.

    Giving staff shares just before a capital raise is a bit of a laugh...talk about a hospital pass !

    I think where this is going is all this information is a warm up (stating the obvious, please forgive me), for the capital raise which nobody will want to underwrite so the Govt will have too. They'll end up with a much larger shareholding. Down the track it won't be a good look for Cindy and Co to be wearing massive losses from a listed company so there's only two ways to conceal / fix that, either massive price rises passed onto customers or nationalize the airline.
    Last edited by Beagle; 18-06-2021 at 10:49 AM.
    Ecclesiastes 11:2: “Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.
    Ben Graham - In the short run the market is a voting machine but in the long run the market is a weighing machine

  6. #18676
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoploss View Post
    Beagle wasn't the PAYE deferred ? Can anyone do that ?
    Was part of Covid support package ....FBT/PAYE deferral and bring forward tax losses

    The $300 odd million is a lot of dosh eh ......saved from drawing down the govt loan ....but in reality it is a government loan but different words
    Last edited by winner69; 18-06-2021 at 10:51 AM.
    “ At the top of every bubble, everyone is convinced it's not yet a bubble.”

  7. #18677
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snow Leopard View Post
    I liked the bit about them being EBITDA positive.

    Defer to survive, probably won't have Beagle going on about how young the fleet is for quiet a few years.
    History never repeats, right https://www.airchathams.co.nz/charters/dc-3-charters
    Last edited by Beagle; 18-06-2021 at 10:55 AM.
    Ecclesiastes 11:2: “Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.
    Ben Graham - In the short run the market is a voting machine but in the long run the market is a weighing machine

  8. #18678
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    Hard to see them making a taxable profit for next 5 years, maybe longer as the new 787s come online with that nice juicy depreciation lol. Long haul as a business is effectively gone as we knew it. Auditors are loath to allow tax losses on balance sheet unless there is a clear path to profitability.

    I take nothing from the domestic travel uptick. You have everyone locked up here so not much else to do. All that money that used to be spent in NY, Aspen and London now here. Remember when NZ Stats used to report on offshore spending by travellers. Now that would have been great indicator early last year but I plain forgot about it(along with every other analyst/forecaster/economist.

  9. #18679
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dassets View Post
    Hard to see them making a taxable profit for next 5 years, maybe longer as the new 787s come online with that nice juicy depreciation lol. Long haul as a business is effectively gone as we knew it. Auditors are loath to allow tax losses on balance sheet unless there is a clear path to profitability.

    I take nothing from the domestic travel uptick. You have everyone locked up here so not much else to do. All that money that used to be spent in NY, Aspen and London now here. Remember when NZ Stats used to report on offshore spending by travellers. Now that would have been great indicator early last year but I plain forgot about it(along with every other analyst/forecaster/economist.
    I agree. Impossible to see them making a profit after all costs and depreciation in the foreseeable future. The auditors are going to be under a lot of pressure ! I'd absolutely hate to be the audit partner on that job Maybe they should just give up on long haul altogether ?
    Ecclesiastes 11:2: “Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.
    Ben Graham - In the short run the market is a voting machine but in the long run the market is a weighing machine

  10. #18680
    Speedy Az winner69's Avatar
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    Jarden trimmed their valuation of AIR to 95 cents

    Methinks they are still being particularly generous with a number like that.
    “ At the top of every bubble, everyone is convinced it's not yet a bubble.”

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