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Thread: AIR - Air NZ.

  1. #18641
    Go The Warriors "This Year!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    The climate commission wants electric planes on regional routes in NZ by 2030.

    That’ll be a great deal for AIR ...and large capex no doubt.
    Electric planes by 2030?
    Just proves this Climate Change Commision lot are living in cloud Cuckoo land...
    For these aircraft to be ready and certified for passenger service by then the prototypes should have already been produced and in a flight testing program...
    Where are they?
    Who's producing them?
    Fanciful stuff without any facts to back up these so called goals..

  2. #18642
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny1 View Post
    Electric planes by 2030?
    Just proves this Climate Change Commision lot are living in cloud Cuckoo land...
    For these aircraft to be ready and certified for passenger service by then the prototypes should have already been produced and in a flight testing program...
    Where are they?
    Who's producing them?
    Fanciful stuff without any facts to back up these so called goals..
    Not wrong Benny1. A complete farce. Sadly.

  3. #18643
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny1 View Post
    Electric planes by 2030?
    Just proves this Climate Change Commision lot are living in cloud Cuckoo land...
    For these aircraft to be ready and certified for passenger service by then the prototypes should have already been produced and in a flight testing program...
    Where are they?
    Who's producing them?
    Fanciful stuff without any facts to back up these so called goals..
    This is the trouble with modern NZ, so much negativity, giving up first and not even trying.

    Where is the old No8 wire can do attitude?

    A couple of weeks work in the in the shed with an old washing machine motor, the UTE battery and a busted hang-glider and we'll be flying Auckland to Invercargill ....

    .... and back!


    Let's give it our best shot.
    om mani peme hum

  4. #18644
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    They are already here
    By 2030 so many kiwis embarrassed to fly AirNZ just need small planes?
    https://www.electricair.nz/
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/as...4BIMXM42FDOSQ/

    Ok they can make bigger ones
    https://www.soundsair.com/2020/10/So...ssion-Flights/
    There was something written re collaboration with a US of A Co a few years ago but I can't find the reference

  5. #18645
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    someone (DIC SNOOP) needs to come on and estimate the demand on the grid of hundreds of thousands of flying electric cars at peak times of the day...

    is there enough generation capacity to handle the load.

    Or are they solar powered?

    or has every house and garage with an electric plane i mean car in it using solar panels?

    and can these flying planes cars fit in your standard car port and garage,

    and since some auckland streets cant handle car parked how on earth is the average person supposed to park their plane , i mean car in the street.

    i just dont see the jetsons coming to a town or city anytime soon or in the future.

    i dont think AIR is going to worry about this kind of competition for few more 10 of decades.

    Some streets and town planning in Zealandia have been laid down for a century or more as some of the houses..

    It just doesnt look like it will fly..

    well the family version wont fit in the garage easily but this might...

    https://www.jetsonaero.com/

    not a winter flyer or rainy day and no where to put the shopping bags..

    still cant see it beating a bike with a basket in europe.
    Last edited by Waltzingironmansinlgescul; 09-06-2021 at 10:32 PM.

  6. #18646
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snow Leopard View Post
    This is the trouble with modern NZ, so much negativity, giving up first and not even trying.

    Where is the old No8 wire can do attitude?

    A couple of weeks work in the in the shed with an old washing machine motor, the UTE battery and a busted hang-glider and we'll be flying Auckland to Invercargill ....

    .... and back!


    Let's give it our best shot.
    The No8 wire in many instances gets firmly entangled in the rafts of hefty labour costs
    and other suffocating bureaucracy multiplying at an alarming rate around victims,
    surrounded by the myriad of weird & wonderful H&S nonsense policed by a tribe
    of bureaucrats so experienced, one has to wonder at times if they've ever spent
    much time on any real workplace floor possess any creative bones ..

    Get it badly wrong and the bus tickets dished out by the learned judiciary in many
    an instance for infringement can be near terminal to many smaller enterprises ..

    End result = much of the creativity moving towards wider scale production migrates
    off to more industrial friendly & lower cost destinations with less excessively overbearing
    bureaucracy abounding here ..

    and we wonder why what we have been known for in NZ previously seemingly is looking like
    it will be headed towards extinction..


    Anyone looked at recent fortunes & ownership of Pacific Aerospace in the Waikato ?

    If it's any good to absolutely marvellous - it gets migrated nuts bolts & washers intact off overseas,
    gets bought out and / or becomes destined an add-on in some foreign company or suffers some other
    demise like roughly similar technology or process elsewhere taking over in the same space & eventually
    overwhelming the limited local operations on our shores..

    Such is today's competitive, if not greedy world stage.. with so many imitation bureaucrats running
    around pretending they know best .. usually only finding new ways to clip the ticket delivering further
    hindrances and excuses to extract even more levies taxes & fees from the job

    not to forget another band of backwards thinking political causes not stopping to think which way
    prospect of a meaningful forward direction is ..

    Case proven yet ?
    Last edited by nztx; 10-06-2021 at 12:49 AM.
    ... the fine art of sniffing out debits & credits hidden under the carpet can pay dividends ...

  7. #18647
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    I hear what you are saying NZTX.
    Try to build a house that is a bit out of the ordinary it is a maize of obstacles to negotiate
    Maybe this one will get of the ground though
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/ind...licopter-drone

  8. #18648
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snow Leopard View Post
    This is the trouble with modern NZ, so much negativity, giving up first and not even trying.

    Where is the old No8 wire can do attitude?

    A couple of weeks work in the in the shed with an old washing machine motor, the UTE battery and a busted hang-glider and we'll be flying Auckland to Invercargill ....

    .... and back!


    Let's give it our best shot.
    Like it ... and lets face it - as we all know - Kiwi mentality is even an impediment to fly.

    Most other birds can do it though and they don't even need batteries - they are just running on biofuel ...
    Last edited by BlackPeter; 10-06-2021 at 12:16 PM.
    ----
    "Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" (Niels Bohr)

  9. #18649
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    Still all a bit quiet on their capital raise......

  10. #18650
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sideshow Bob View Post
    Still all a bit quiet on their capital raise......
    Any thoughts on the potential structure of the capital raise? Rights per share? Dollar amounts?

  11. #18651
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny1 View Post
    Electric planes by 2030?
    Just proves this Climate Change Commision lot are living in cloud Cuckoo land...
    For these aircraft to be ready and certified for passenger service by then the prototypes should have already been produced and in a flight testing program...
    Where are they?
    Who's producing them?
    Fanciful stuff without any facts to back up these so called goals..
    uhh - there are plenty of electric planes already in various stages of development and testing, some of which are already shipping to customers.

    in terms of New Zealand operators, Sounds air already has EV planes carrying 19 passengers on order for its short haul routes between the top of the South Island and lower north island routes.

    Boeing & Airbus already have Large EV airliner designs, and are also testing hybrid models where 1-2 engines on existing models are replaced with electric engines. Also new operators like Wright Aerospace are working on a 800km range all EV airliner.
    Last edited by LaserEyeKiwi; 10-06-2021 at 11:58 AM.

  12. #18652
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    Can you please name these aircraft that are being delivered. State range and payload. Don't forget the 45 min reserve for commercial operations beyond the alternate airport. Are they type certified or experimental? More than 4 seats?

    BTW on order for a design spec means nothing. Go ask the Eclipse 500 customers who lodged orders.

    Airbus has dropped its project. Maybe another one could come. The C208eecteic demo can carry 3 or 4 pax 100miles not nm, no baggage. Pity about the other 16 seats and no bags and no reserve.

    Argument that it can be short range is silly. An airport every 50 miles? Seriously interested in your info.

  13. #18653
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    well perhaps each town will have new types of car parks with a lift that takes you air hover car plane and lifts you up to the take off pad on the roof and then stores your helli plane car...

    car parks are rebuilt with automated car plane parks and lift off landing roof..

  14. #18654
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    https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/...-boss#comments

    Is this reported right or fuzzy logic? I believed business class margin provided the underlying profitability/cost recovery of a international flight historically, therefore it also subsidised the price other seats could be offered on a plane. So if their demand falls for business class then to maintain a profitable flight the margin needs to recovered over the others seats...

    Still 2-3 years away a new normal...if that is the industry expectation, may explain the delay on capital raising...

  15. #18655
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaserEyeKiwi View Post
    uhh - there are plenty of electric planes already in various stages of development and testing, some of which are already shipping to customers.

    in terms of New Zealand operators, Sounds air already has EV planes carrying 19 passengers on order for its short haul routes between the top of the South Island and lower north island routes.
    These short-haul planes have an initial delivery date of 2026 (if I remember correctly), and that's is assuming all goes to plan. No word on the infrastructure upgrades required at the airport (charging, fire protection etc.) With only 19 seats and with a no doubt high capital cost compared to conventional aircraft, it will be interesting to see what price point fares will need to remain profitable.

    IMO the timeline of 2030 is still too tight, especially when we're competing with the rest of the world for these types of resources.

  16. #18656
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/...-boss#comments

    Is this reported right or fuzzy logic? I believed business class margin provided the underlying profitability/cost recovery of a international flight historically, therefore it also subsidised the price other seats could be offered on a plane. So if their demand falls for business class then to maintain a profitable flight the margin needs to recovered over the others seats...

    Still 2-3 years away a new normal...if that is the industry expectation, may explain the delay on capital raising...
    Carbon offsets and biofuel will certainly push all classes of fares upward. Perhaps we're going back to the golden days of travel, but this time it's the 1960's.

  17. #18657
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    I notice airline demand is surging North America and the UK where the vaccine role-out is 6(ish) months ahead of us. Any opportunities for AIR in the interim?

    Foreign airlines betting big on travel recovery:
    https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...ws-2021-06-10/

  18. #18658
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sideshow Bob View Post
    Still all a bit quiet on their capital raise......
    I have been thinking the something. Haven't heard any updates on the capital raise. Had previously read they have put it on hold until September?

    Anybody know anything more about this?

    Would it be fair to assume the SP is stuck around the 1.6 range as shareholders and investors are waiting to see what the offer is for the Capital Raise? Any guess's?

  19. #18659
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    Fair value on AIR, in my opinion, is well under $1. In my opinion the only investment strategy worth pursuing with AIR at present is to avoid the share or short it.
    Ecclesiastes 11:2: “Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.

  20. #18660
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    Fair value on AIR, in my opinion, is well under $1. In my opinion the only investment strategy worth pursuing with AIR at present is to avoid the share or short it.
    My guess is that AirNZ will allocate Capital Raise to be set at ~1.60. SP will likely be in the 1.75 to 1.85 range by then. I wish we had loaded up the portfolio more back when SP dipped and was only $1 !

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