AIR - Air NZ.

[Rep]

Summing up:
- Air New Zealand has 11 787-9 Dreamliners (they were the launch customer)
- All eleven of them have the Trent 1000 engine - however nine of those 11 have the Package C configuration that has been subject to the revised ETOPs restrictions
- The other two 787s have Trent 1000 TEN engines which are subject (well at least not yet to restricted ETOPs)

If you are wondering what ETOPs is all about.

It means Extended range Twin engine Operating Performance Standards (or also known as Engines Turn Or Passengers Swim).

Basically a long time ago, the general wisdom was that if you were in a passenger jet with a greater number of engines such as the old DC8 or the 747 with four engines then if one of the four was disabled then getting by with three over a large distance (say over water) to the next airport was feasible. Similarly, this meant that three engined aircraft like the DC10 and the Lockheed Tristar could similarly operate (on the basis they'd still have two engines if one of the three failed). But mainly it was because no-one had built a sufficiently powerful two engine turbine with enough fuel capacity to contemplate making twin engine long haul overwater flight possible.

However, 3 and 4 engine aircraft have disadvantages - drag, weight, complexity so tend to use up more fuel.

When the 767-200 ER came along in the mid 1980s, it was the first jet airliner that could practically fly long distances across oceans. However, regulators were skeptical at first and they allowed for ETOPS in 1985 as ETOPS 120 (or the twins could fly for 120 mins away from any airport enroute) with the proviso that after 1 year of trouble free ETOPS 120 flights they could apply for ETOPS 180 (or having the twin fly for 180 mins from any airport enroute).

Once ETOPS 180 became available, something like 95% of the Earth could be accessed with an ETOPS flight - particularly useful if you in Auckland boarding a long haul flight going in an easterly direction over water.

The Dreamliners had received an ETOPS 330 in 2014 but the first ETOPS flight anywhere was an Air New Zealand 777-200ER getting from AKL to Buenos Aires in 2015. Having those bigger numbers means accessing routes that you can't otherwise OR enabling the ultra long haul legs (e.g. Auckland to Chicago or Houston without a stopover).

It should be noted that the 787 does have another engine package but switching it out would be expensive and time consuming. Hopefully this doesn't end up being RB211 saga for Rolls Royce.

The Airbus A350XWB has received ETOPS370 certification.

[Raz]

This is interesting - could AIR use a few of them

Demand obviously not meeting Emirates expectations ...quite a few surplus A380s ..ouch

From Twitter

Alex Macheras (@AlexInAir)
29/04/18, 7:47 PM
Latest: #UAE-based #Emirates are removing more aircraft from the fleet, and sending the passenger jets to be stored at DWC airport, due to low demand.

• This month:
11 x Boeing 777
1 x A380

• May 2018:
14 x 777s
6 x A380s

• June 2018:
11 x 777s and 3 x A380s

Not a demand issue more a lack of pilot issue..

"The airline is short about 100 to 150 pilots, forcing it to reduce the frequency of some routes to Florida in the United States this summer, Clark said. Chinese carriers in particular were offering extremely competitive packages for pilots."

Interesting given the Chinese airlines often have the cheapest fares...

[carrom74]

Summing up:
- Air New Zealand has 11 787-9 Dreamliners (they were the launch customer)
- All eleven of them have the Trent 1000 engine - however nine of those 11 have the Package C configuration that has been subject to the revised ETOPs restrictions
- The other two 787s have Trent 1000 TEN engines which are subject (well at least not yet to restricted ETOPs)

If you are wondering what ETOPs is all about.

It means Extended range Twin engine Operating Performance Standards (or also known as Engines Turn Or Passengers Swim).

Basically a long time ago, the general wisdom was that if you were in a passenger jet with a greater number of engines such as the old DC8 or the 747 with four engines then if one of the four was disabled then getting by with three over a large distance (say over water) to the next airport was feasible. Similarly, this meant that three engined aircraft like the DC10 and the Lockheed Tristar could similarly operate (on the basis they'd still have two engines if one of the three failed). But mainly it was because no-one had built a sufficiently powerful two engine turbine with enough fuel capacity to contemplate making twin engine long haul overwater flight possible.

However, 3 and 4 engine aircraft have disadvantages - drag, weight, complexity so tend to use up more fuel.

When the 767-200 ER came along in the mid 1980s, it was the first jet airliner that could practically fly long distances across oceans. However, regulators were skeptical at first and they allowed for ETOPS in 1985 as ETOPS 120 (or the twins could fly for 120 mins away from any airport enroute) with the proviso that after 1 year of trouble free ETOPS 120 flights they could apply for ETOPS 180 (or having the twin fly for 180 mins from any airport enroute).

Once ETOPS 180 became available, something like 95% of the Earth could be accessed with an ETOPS flight - particularly useful if you in Auckland boarding a long haul flight going in an easterly direction over water.

The Dreamliners had received an ETOPS 330 in 2014 but the first ETOPS flight anywhere was an Air New Zealand 777-200ER getting from AKL to Buenos Aires in 2015. Having those bigger numbers means accessing routes that you can't otherwise OR enabling the ultra long haul legs (e.g. Auckland to Chicago or Houston without a stopover).

It should be noted that the 787 does have another engine package but switching it out would be expensive and time consuming. Hopefully this doesn't end up being RB211 saga for Rolls Royce.

The Airbus A350XWB has received ETOPS370 certification.

Very informative post. Thank you for the insight

[Beagle]

Not a demand issue more a lack of pilot issue..

"The airline is short about 100 to 150 pilots, forcing it to reduce the frequency of some routes to Florida in the United States this summer, Clark said. Chinese carriers in particular were offering extremely competitive packages for pilots."

Interesting given the Chinese airlines often have the cheapest fares...

Makes you wonder what the Chinese are paying their cabin, ground and catering crews doesn't it ! Friends tell me the very small size of their meals is quite startling

[Filthy]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/trave...being-notified

[Snow Leopard]

Makes you wonder what the Chinese are paying their cabin, ground and catering crews doesn't it ! Friends tell me the very small size of their meals is quite startling

Having not only flown with many Chinese Airlines but also breakfasted with a number of their air-crews I can confidently contradict your friends and state that they eat heartily.

Indeed, in a straight race to consume congee I am not sure that I could beat even the smallest flight attendant.

Note: Sichuan Airlines do a wickedly good spiced beef snack on their short-haul domestic flights.

[Beagle]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/317480

On a quick skim read no mention of the engine problems or how they're planning to deal with them. Apparently that's not relevant information for a Macquarie investor presentation. Unfortunately its too early for a Tui...

[Filthy]

Unfortunately its too early for a Tui...

its never too early mate lol

[777]

Interesting that 38% plus is offshore ownership.

Or put another way 79.16% of what the government doesn't own.

Share register
(as at 31 December 2017)
Retail investors 3%
International institutional investors 38%
New Zealand Government 52%
New Zealand institutional investors 7%

[Beagle]

Interesting that 38% plus is offshore ownership.

Or put another way 79.16% of what the government doesn't own.

Share register
(as at 31 December 2017)
Retail investors 3%
International institutional investors 38%
New Zealand Government 52%
New Zealand institutional investors 7%

From memory that was 4% last time they posted those stat's. Retail investors losing confidence in dodgy engines ?