AIR - Air NZ.

[kiora]

Apparently AIR doing 12 round trips to London this month, presumably to repatriate displaced tourists.

Virgin Australia donating all their grounded loo-roll to good causes, must be worth bailing out then.

I would love to get on a plane, with or without loo-roll and go 'home' but I am locked out of my country of residence until further notice

Ouch
I hoped holed up somewhere where plenty of wine SL

[mondograss]

A good post Chinesekiwi thanks for injecting some reality

Actually, under NZ law a company can mandate one shutdown per year. Typically businesses do this over the Xmas period, but since Air NZ wouldn't normally do that being a busy period, they can do it now and force people to take leave regardless of their balance, even if it means tipping them into a negative balance. But they can't force LWOP.

[Benny1]

Hi Jaa

I believe Australian law allows the LWOP to be implemented as it has been. So QANTAS was able to apply the law ASAP.

NZ law does not allow for this.

Companies cannot force accrued leave to be taken BUT can force (after consultation, if that 'fails' then by law can force) Due and Excess leave to be taken. These two leave types are leave balances on 12 months or more.

My understanding is that Air NZ has asked the question and the response was fast from employees. Even given 30% will go soon (overseas offices are getting the haircuts this week, locals soon thereafter) another 750 asked for voluntary exit, 2700 for LWOP and 4000 for part time.

I think Air NZ people, aside from wanting their jobs post crisis - actually like working where they work.

Foran has told employees this week that management have foregone 'tens of millions' in salary cuts, bonus cancellations and incentive schemes stopped. I know that one large group within the flying part of the business has handed back half a million dollars in the next 3 months without having been asked to do so as a solidarity gesture to the company.

Maybe Air NZ isn't as sleepy as we think.

Great post ChineseKiwi ..there are lots of things going on behind the scenes around the company and I am sure between the company and the major shareholder.. The Government.
Some on here can smell blood and can't wait to get there pound if flesh...
I am pretty sure some of this manpower reduction in some areas was planned and would have happened this year anyway... This virus has brought some of it forward somewhat.
There are charter flights coming up which has put back the storage of the 777-300 aircraft for around a month.. Details set to be released soon apparently..
For Beagle... Around 70 manhours for widebodies while in storage... However this is still being planned... These upcoming extra flights have delayed things abit.

[winner69]

@CamWallace_NZ
Our @FlyAirNZ revised domestic schedule is out. We will be flying to AKL, WLG, CHC, NSN and DUD only. One or two return services a day, eff 3 Apr. This represents a 95% reduction pre - C19. Demand is down about 99%. @andykirton

[Beagle]

@CamWallace_NZ
Our @FlyAirNZ revised domestic schedule is out. We will be flying to AKL, WLG, CHC, NSN and DUD only. One or two return services a day, eff 3 Apr. This represents a 95% reduction pre - C19. Demand is down about 99%. @andykirton

I shall head down to the beach again at 4.00 today and watch the last, (for a while) Q300 flight take off and head overhead on its way up north. Yesterday the view from our local beach out across the manukau harbour towards the airport and Hunua ranges, the air was the clearest I have ever seen it.

Thanks Benny. 70 hours a week for each parked jet means plenty of work for engineers so that's good. I don't think anyone wants to see the airline fail....they just can't see how realistically it can survive in its current form. It won't fail, the Govt won't let it. In financial terms though, for minority shareholders this looks like a one way journey to Argentina with not enough fuel to get there.

[Chinesekiwi]

Actually, under NZ law a company can mandate one shutdown per year. Typically businesses do this over the Xmas period, but since Air NZ wouldn't normally do that being a busy period, they can do it now and force people to take leave regardless of their balance, even if it means tipping them into a negative balance. But they can't force LWOP.

Hi Mondograss

Thanks for your post and you are correct re LWOP

As I have had explained to me and my colleagues in my company - a company cannot force ACCRUED leave to be taken - that is the law. It has been clarified twice this week to me in employment law skype calls from both company HR GM and Union Leaders.

An employee can bring forward future leave to be used currently but they run the risk of if having used it and then are made redundant they have a negative balance to be paid back to the employer.


The leave they can force Due, Excess and Alternative days (days worked on public holidays).

I'm not a contracts or legal expert just an employee thrust into this arena due the virus and have had to be deeply involved in these types of discussions.

[mondograss]

Hi Mondograss

Thanks for your post and you are correct re LWOP

As I have had explained to me and my colleagues in my company - a company cannot force ACCRUED leave to be taken - that is the law. It has been clarified twice this week to me in employment law skype calls from both company HR GM and Union Leaders.

An employee can bring forward future leave to be used currently but they run the risk of if having used it and then are made redundant they have a negative balance to be paid back to the employer.


The leave they can force Due, Excess and Alternative days (days worked on public holidays).

I'm not a contracts or legal expert just an employee thrust into this arena due the virus and have had to be deeply involved in these types of discussions.

This would appear to contradict what you've been told, but technically it's not an annual closedown that's occurring so probably you've been advised correctly. I was just pointing out that potentially companies could use the annual close down rule as a loophole to force people to take leave. But it depends whether a business can exercise the right to an annual closedown if it had never done it before (I mean it there has to be some rule that allows a company to begin doing it right?).

https://www.employment.govt.nz/leave...al-closedowns/

The employer can have further or other closedowns (ie not regular annual closedowns under the Holidays Act 2003) but they will need to agree with their employees on how those closedowns will be treated and what leave or holidays arrangements will apply.

Instead of having an annual closedown and requiring employees to take annual holidays, there are other options, eg an employer may choose to continue to pay employees but not require them to attend work.

The employer can’t make employees take annual holidays for a closedown except when it is an annual closedown under the Holidays Act 2003 (although they could require them to take annual holidays if they have been unable to reach agreement on when the employee can take annual holidays and they give them 14 days’ notice).

An employee’s date of entitlement to annual holidays can’t be affected by a second or subsequent closedown.

[Beagle]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...ectid=12321801

[kiwico]

British Airways is going the route of up to 80% of cabin crew, ground staff, engineers and those working at head office having their jobs suspended, but no staff are yet expected to be made redundant.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52130021

[Jaa]

Hi Jaa

I believe Australian law allows the LWOP to be implemented as it has been. So QANTAS was able to apply the law ASAP.

NZ law does not allow for this.

Companies cannot force accrued leave to be taken BUT can force (after consultation, if that 'fails' then by law can force) Due and Excess leave to be taken. These two leave types are leave balances on 12 months or more.

My understanding is that Air NZ has asked the question and the response was fast from employees. Even given 30% will go soon (overseas offices are getting the haircuts this week, locals soon thereafter) another 750 asked for voluntary exit, 2700 for LWOP and 4000 for part time.

I think Air NZ people, aside from wanting their jobs post crisis - actually like working where they work.

Foran has told employees this week that management have foregone 'tens of millions' in salary cuts, bonus cancellations and incentive schemes stopped. I know that one large group within the flying part of the business has handed back half a million dollars in the next 3 months without having been asked to do so as a solidarity gesture to the company.

Maybe Air NZ isn't as sleepy as we think.

Thanks for the replies Chinesekiwi and everyone else. As you say there is plenty happening but is it enough, fast enough?

If management and employees have forgone significant sums it should be publicised. It increases the airline's leverage in negotiations with other players especially the NZ government. Shareholders are down 70% and missing an ex-date dividend.