AIR - Air NZ.

[Zaphod]

Impossible today is old hat tomorrow.

Unfortunately we have pesky physics in the way! We've doubled the energy density of batteries within about a 10 year period, but even increasing the doubling to every 5 years it would take several lifetimes to reach comparable levels of storage with hydrocarbons, but that's if it's even physically possible.

[BlackPeter]

The density figures provided by Doug give you an idea of how much energy can be packed into a given space and explains why the battery pack used in a vehicle is so much larger than a fuel tank. Electric vehicles store much smaller amounts of energy on board, but are generally more efficient at using that stored energy. Basically, the calculations you've made above don't reflect all of the variables involved and might not be the best way to draw energy use comparisons between the two. It gets pretty complicated!

True - always wondered how birds can fly for many thousand of km's without rest when they have just this incredibly inefficient biofuel on board :

Albatrossrange.JPG

Godwits.JPG

To determine the range there are clearly other parameters to consider than just the energy density of the fuel storage container ...

[Sideshow Bob]

AIR loves a good greenwash

Absolutely! I did the Air NZ survey last night and they are looking to get rid of plastic bag tags/membership for Koru/Frequent Flyers, for sustainability and digital technoology reasons. But at the same time looking at still being able to buy them. Whats the difference apart from saving Air NZ money??

[whatsup]

True - always wondered how birds can fly for many thousand of km's without rest when they have just this incredibly inefficient biofuel on board :

Albatrossrange.JPG

Godwits.JPG

To determine the range there are clearly other parameters to consider than just the energy density of the fuel storage container ...

Isnt this why Air N Z has the Koru on its tail ?

[peat]

so which bird can fly the furthest?

Capture.JPG



bearish engulfing on the weekly too!

the monthly is more ambiguous with the last few just spinning.

[winner69]

Those godwits are amazing …this fella left Alaska for NZ but met a storm

From Miranda Trust:
Well the Godwit has had quite an adventure but ended up where he started, after flying for 57 hours and covering 4,200 kms, he is back on the Yukon delta, now he will have to refuel and hope he gets better weather on his next attempt


That’s averaging over 70kmh …cool

[sideline]

The density figures provided by Doug give you an idea of how much energy can be packed into a given space and explains why the battery pack used in a vehicle is so much larger than a fuel tank. Electric vehicles store much smaller amounts of energy on board, but are generally more efficient at using that stored energy. Basically, the calculations you've made above don't reflect all of the variables involved and might not be the best way to draw energy use comparisons between the two. It gets pretty complicated!

However, quite a few electric cars employ regenerative braking to harvest and re-store some of the energy back to the batteries (instead of burning it off at conventional brake pads) when braking and extend their range that way. That won't be an option with electric planes.....

[causecelebre]

Absolutely! I did the Air NZ survey last night and they are looking to get rid of plastic bag tags/membership for Koru/Frequent Flyers, for sustainability and digital technoology reasons. But at the same time looking at still being able to buy them. Whats the difference apart from saving Air NZ money??

There's a big difference between "Zero emission's hydrogen powered air-craft", as touted by AIR, and "Zero emission's hydrogen". Remember we don't invest in green H2 in NZ, the vast majority is grey H2 production, the carbon waste coming from SMR using gas and, even worse, black H2 from coal gasification. Green H2 production won't be economic for another 25 years.

Minister Shaw is heading to COP26 knowing much serious NZ production of H2 is dirty, e.g. Glenbrook (for the next 14 years), when green H2 tech is being invested in overseas. Any green H2 produced here will likely be used to decarbonise indiustry here and for export. AIR will no doubt try to spin the use of grey H2 by using carbon capture or carbon offsets.

We should be using green H2 in industrial processes rather than pretending we can have a cheap aviation sector but without emissions. Industrial's aren't as sexy as aviation.

[Zaphod]

However, quite a few electric cars employ regenerative braking to harvest and re-store some of the energy back to the batteries (instead of burning it off at conventional brake pads) when braking and extend their range that way. That won't be an option with electric planes.....

You could potentially generate power by changing how reverse thrust for turbofan or turboprop jets is implemented, or for any type of descent maneuver. I still remain highly skeptical of large-scale electrification of aircraft at this point however.

[peat]

My Li-Ion battery electric mower is getting a bit gutless after only 3 years.
Cant see this current (lol) technolgy giving the longevity neccesary to make the investment wortwhile.
Its not particularly relevant i guess but this first experience with replacing an ICE with electric battery isnt impressing me

i couldve put this in the electric car thread