AIR - Air NZ.

[Robomo]

Without derailing this thread any further, comparisons between booking domestic legs separately and as part of an international journey are fraught with difficulty.

An international Works Deluxe produce is similar to domestic Flexi Plus product (2x bags, flexibility etc.) which is why airlines use similar fare-buckets for a domestic sector culminating with an international sector. This is an industry standard across all airlines.

You will however often see special domestic add-on fares for $50 or $100 from AirNZ during sales periods.

Correct Zaphod. I understand the point that Iceman is trying to make, it's the spin he puts on it that annoys me.

Yes, it might be cheaper to book two separate fares but to say that there is no risk of missing the Samoa flight is wrong. Anything can happen, and does happen. I fly multiple sectors about 50 times a year (Auckland-Invercargill, Auckland-Hobart etc) and about 2% of the time I've been rescheduled and 1% of the time I've been put up overnight and rescheduled. No cost to me and I've been well looked after. On international flights I've been put up overnight in Melbourne and Sydney and once transferred to Qantas to get me home same day.

You can mitigate your risk by leaving 24 hours+ between flights but in Iceman's case that means spending a day and night in Auckland - so add accommodation plus the damage to your Credit Card spending all day browsing the shops at Sylvia Park (just kidding!). Seriously though if you take out travel insurance, read the fine print as you may find they insist on 24 hours or more between unconnected flights.

[Beagle]

I always wondered what it meant when Luxon said something along the lines that AIR would proactively provide access to next-generation niche markets
I get it now - it is all about our man Jones coming up with all these new routes - he a genius that guy. You talk to him at ASM Roger?

No but I saw him on the news the other night. He struck me as a highly astute and articulate chap. I did have a good chat to another one of the team involved in establishing the Bounes Aires route at the annual meeting and he told me it was quite an interesting place to do business...among other things.

Honestly folks the whole "AIR has been ripping us off on domestic flights thing" is getting shrill, a little OTT and very old IMO. Some people used to bleat like lambs lost from their mothers that AIR was ripping us off something chronic with their short distance regional flights on the twin engine / two pilot Beech 1900d 19 seater aircraft..honestly it was so incredibly tiresome and then finally AIR answered their criticism emphatically by withdrawing services and winding down the use of that aircraft which was in fact costing the company one million dollars a month in losses !! Now those same people are flying inferior / slower / older aircraft, sometimes single engine / single pilot operations and probably have no idea whatsoever of the implied extra risk in each and every flight. The funny thing is you never hear them come back and say, opps, sorry folks, we were wrong and I apologise for misleading everyone on here do you !

We are fortunate to have a quality airline that serves many smaller cities and larger towns in N.Z. as well as the larger cities and major tourism towns. AIR's substantial investment in another 15 brand new ATR600 aircraft the other day shows they're committed to providing a top quality flight experience on quality aircraft and they have one of the youngest fleets in the industry at only 7.5 years average age. If people feel they're better off flying Jetstar's old extremely cramped A320's with the tightest 29 inch seat pitch in the entire industry and relic unsellable old Q300's or Ewan Wilson's 30 year old MOTAT era Saab 340 then good luck to you but I think I speak for most AIr N.Z. shareholders when I say we don't need to hear about it every five minutes for goodness sake. Contrary to a disingenuous and erroneous suggestion on the previous page by Joshuatree, I flew Jetstar only once this year on a one way flight to Chrischurch. I did this because someone else was paying the bill, it was a school holiday's and they were very price conscious and AIR's plane at that time on that day happened to be significantly more expensive, (not always the case by any means).

Getting back to business, (yes let's), as you've suggested Winner. Yes the company is incredibly well positioned and a re-test of the $3 glass ceiling is likely sooner rather than later. I'm picking $900m - $1,000m before tax inclusive of Virgin's contribution for FY16. I believe the profit this year will go close or maybe even over doubling last year's profit, (itself an all time record). I guess its more than fair to say shareholders are extremely well positioned

I would respectfully remind the naysayers that AIR N.Z. won the company of the year award at last year's Deloitte Top 200 company awards and that our Chairman Tony Carter won Chairperson of the year award. Jan Dawson deputy chair was a partner in KPMG for 30 years and was Chief executive from 2006 to 2011 and won the Chartered Accountant of the year award in 2011.
If people think winning these sort of premier N.Z. business awards are easy, think again.

[skid]

No more talk about whether AIR frequent flyer scheme is crap or not - let's get back on topic of trading AIR shares

That $3 mark is a psychological resistance barrier that's been there for more than 10 years. They are powerful things and punters often underestimate that

However this time around it is to be broken .... and soon. The fundamentals (nearly a $1 billion earnings this year) support this

Furthermore the pressure is building - look at that wedge in the bottom chart. the gap from each new low to $3 is getting smaller. The odds are that the price will break through the resistance of $3 next time (or maybe the one after that). The good book on TA says so.

And then remember what was once strong resistance becomes strong support - once through this resistance $3 won't be seen for a while (goodness knows what happens when the cycle turns, don't forget AIR is a cyclical stock)

AIR above $3 is a certainty ... and sooner than later. Just shows what a good buy it was at around $2.65/$2.66 the other day was

Tim - charts are not 'predictive' per se but they do give powerful signals as to what probably may happen in the future






A

Winner..not not going to jinx it again are you? The more superstitious posters must have cringed when they read that

[winner69]

Winner..not not going to jinx it again are you? The more superstitious posters must have cringed when they read that

If I did jinx it last time I not complaining - gave me chance to take profits and then start all over again.

Thankfully in the month or so I have had AIR one of their planes hasn't crashed and killed hundreds - always been afraid of tempting fate but obviously no need to worry.

[Baa_Baa]

Oh dear, another gross exaggeration. You don't quote any dates for your "cheapest airfare of $558 return" so I've looked at three dates 16 November 2015, 16 December 2015, 16 February 2016. Typical 1 day business trip carry-on only; out in the morning, back at night (easy as there are usually only 2 flights a day for Paraparaumu - Auckland).

16 November (tomorrow) $518 return
16 December (1 month from now) $403 return
16 February (3 months from now) $248 return (Auckland - Paraparaumu return this day is $118 return)

So, Baa Baa where did you get your $558 figure from and why do you not qualify it as being on just one day (assuming that you are correct and that this fare actually exists somewhere)?

Being critical of a company is fine but if you going to quote examples then make sure they are correct and not plucked out of thin air. Your quote of "cheapest airfare {of} $558 return" is obviously badly wrong and needs your acknowledgement and correction.

Gee you had me worried, that my glasses might need checking.

But no I checked my itinerary ... $229 out on the cheapest flight at 6:50am (could pay $289 with luggage, $309 flexitime, $329 flexi-day). Same back 6:05pm! I though my PA might need a tune-up, but she's onto it as well after I checked the AirNZ bookings website, she got me to AK and back at the cheapest fare, and we don't have another airline for alternatives. (By the way, the return cheap flight is now $299! What a difference a few days make.)

So maybe what you've assumed is that I'm out and back same day. But I'm not, I said "Paraparaumu to Auckland at $279 one way(!)" ... "$558 return" (that's the total if you're struggling with the maths). Air NZ calls it "Select your flight to Auckland" .. "Select your return flight to Kapiti Coast", both booked at the same time. = out and return flights = $558! Geez, that's almost 3/4 of the way to some tropical paradise.

Look I don't know what your problem is robomo or why you're so defensive about it, but for shareholders you should be rejoicing at the Air regional routes who have no competition and none planned, are where the company can pretty much charge any price it likes. Add a bit of competition and hey presto, they scalp the price big time.

Just be happy that some backwaters like Paraparaumu -> Auckland can still demand the outrageous prices and profits that AirNZ has become synonymous with on it's uncontested regional routes.

And don't tell me I'm wrong unless you're absolutely sure about your facts. No apology needed.

[brend]

Hi brend. I woulld like to know how much of the growh in Airpoints scheme you refer to is from travelers using AIR. I suggest most of it is from people that actually never fly but get Airpoints from credit cards and FlyBuys !

""Membership of Air New Zealand's loyalty programme, Airpoints, was up 17 per cent at 1.9 million, with Australia the biggest overseas group of members, up 20 per cent in the year, Luxon said."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...-cheap-flights

then you have this....http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/mone...n-discount-war

[Beagle]

""Membership of Air New Zealand's loyalty programme, Airpoints, was up 17 per cent at 1.9 million, with Australia the biggest overseas group of members, up 20 per cent in the year, Luxon said."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...-cheap-flights

then you have this....http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/mone...n-discount-war

Good on you for taking the opportunity to increase your shareholding recently mate.

Interesting segment this one from consumer N.Z.

"When we deducted the cost of annual fees to get the net value, eight cards resulted in a negative return."

I have an ANZ cash back card which gives you 50 cents cash back per $100 spent once you trigger $5,000 per annum card spend and $1.00 cash back per $100 spent once you are over $10,000 per annum but the catch is the $60 annual card fee so you've got to be spending over $10,000 per annum before you even accrue $40 net benefit. There's also all the other usual fish hooks like late payment fees, 21% standard interest rate e.t.c.e.t.c. none of which concern me as I always pay my card off in full each month. This has been my primary "go to" card for many years but I was recently offered the platinum Amex card and my daughter offered a standard American express Airpoints card.

Funnily enough when I compared the two I decided to go with the regular run of the mill standard American express airpoints card for two reasons. 1. Flashing gold or titanium cards when you spend is of no interest whatsoever to me. I know where I'm at financially in life and couldn't care less what other people think. 2. There's no annual card fees (ever) and its a simple reward system of 1 Airpoint for every $100 spent with no minimum or maximum spend per annum. I think there's a 50 airpoints welcome bonus once you've spent $300, (already clocked up this weekend LOL)..anyway this new card seems puuurrrrfect, (Cat put intended) I knew I could take advantage of the platinum first year incentive and get 200 airpoints for nothing and forward diarise to cancel after 11 months 29 days but I can't be bothered with the paperwork and would prefer a durable, pragmatic card with a sensible and easy reward system and no annual card fees ever ! To be honest I am often surprised by some clients than run multiple gold or platinum card accounts with different providers and the annual card fees can amount to a pretty tidy sum.

Cash back rewards are fine but the money disappears into the ether of one's finances and is quickly forgotten or worse still, ostensibly eaten up in annual card fees, whereas on the other hand this new no annual fee card will be sure to reward me with memorable flights over the years so I'm loving this new initiative put together by Amex and AIR N.Z.
Anyway mate here's the good oil on this card if you or others are interested : http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/airpoints-amex Note, eligibility dates have been extended.

[Robomo]

Baa_Baa. Your original post states the "cheapest airfare", not the cheapest airfare on the days you want or need to travel. If you travel on the days and times you needto travel (and you still don't quote the actual dates) and pay $558 then that is what it is. However if you want the "cheapest airfare", as you write, then you could wait until 16 February and pay just $248. In fact if you booked Paraparaumu-AKL-Paraparaumu on 15-17 June you would just pay $118 return.

Your original post is disingenuous in that it infers that the "cheapest airfare" is $558, which is patently not true. It's true only for the times that you need to travel.

Air New Zealand sets fares according to demand, just like every other airline in the world, including Jetstar. If P'umu - Auckland is so expensive and profitable then surely that would attract others to share the spoils? I don't see Jetstar or Ewan Wilson flying out of P'umu.

I've written before that New Zealand regional airfares are as low as anywhere else in the world. Check the prices of the 1 hour flight from Sydney-Wagga Wagga-Sydney - similar flight time as P'umu - Auckland and has two airlines in competition. Return airfare for later this week is $NZ384 on Rex and $512 on Qantas. For 15-17 June (P'umu - AKL - P'umu on Air NZ $118) fares SYD-WAG-SYD are $NZ229 on Rex and $NZ293 on Qantas. The possible reason for this is that the average load factor is below 60%, maybe because 2 airlines are vying for limited business.

Baa_Baa, you are trying to create an impression that AirNZ are unfairly gouging the good citizens of Paraparaumu and you quote selective fares to prove your point. As I point out, what you say is only applicable to the travel dates you want to travel, there are much cheaper deals available if you book well ahead of time. Perhaps you could comment on the relationship between SYD-WAG-SYD fares where there is a competitive market and how it compares to the AirNZ monopoly in Paraparaumu?

[Baa_Baa]

Baa_Baa. Your original post states the "cheapest airfare", not the cheapest airfare on the days you want or need to travel. If you travel on the days and times you needto travel (and you still don't quote the actual dates) and pay $558 then that is what it is. However if you want the "cheapest airfare", as you write, then you could wait until 16 February and pay just $248. In fact if you booked Paraparaumu-AKL-Paraparaumu on 15-17 June you would just pay $118 return.

Your original post is disingenuous in that it infers that the "cheapest airfare" is $558, which is patently not true. It's true only for the times that you need to travel.

Baa_Baa, you are trying to create an impression that AirNZ are unfairly gouging the good citizens of Paraparaumu and you quote selective fares to prove your point. As I point out, what you say is only applicable to the travel dates you want to travel, there are much cheaper deals available if you book well ahead of time. Perhaps you could comment on the relationship between SYD-WAG-SYD fares where there is a competitive market and how it compares to the AirNZ monopoly in Paraparaumu?

Good grief, why would I bother posting THE FACTS about my travel unless it was about the days I needed to travel! Disingenuous, hardly. I'm not making up these fares, they're on the Air website and are going up, quickly, for the hapless who need to book nearer the day of their travel! They're the facts that's all, you need to get over it. Air NZ charge what they like on the uncontested routes. You as a shareholder should be happy about it, but you'd rather stick it up anyone who dares to point they're gouging uncontested routes.

[Beagle]

Here we have the world's most modern airliner the new Dreamliner and because Jetstar have crammed so many seats into it they've turned the Dreamliner into a nightmare-liner. Just look at the appalling feedback Jetstar are getting on their service on seatguru, scroll down the page a bit for the user feedback section
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Jet...eing_787-8.php