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Thread: AIR - Air NZ.

  1. #6481
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    I don't hold AIR but am waiting to see how long until this downtrend turns the corner...

  2. #6482
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    Gotcha, thanks

  3. #6483
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    Spent all day on this and reviewed all material and previous correspondence including a full review of their securities trading policy, (13 pages) and due consideration of what's material information and what isn't.

    Spoke with Tony Carter - After the usual pleasantries A fairly robust debate and exchange of views was expressed:-

    His View - The information contained in the investor day presentation was broadly neutral in terms of its nature and nothing material in there that wasn't already in the market place.
    SP on the day of the presentation went up.

    My view - The market takes time to digest the information and several analysts downgraded shortly afterwards and the SP performance over the following few days is more relevant, down 10%

    His view - Management and directors are very surprised by the SP decline and its certainly not reflective of the current operating environment and strong cash flow.
    He conceded that the optics of this matter weren't the best and he could see my point of view. He went on to say he was just as concerned about the reputation risk as the legal one after I explained that it is easy for investors to perceive that management have taken advantage

    He went on to explain that there has been significant black out periods this year that are additional to those normally encountered and specifically they related to the VAH matter and in and around the time of the announcement that their stake was under review. In effect he said for all of January February and March 2016 executives have been restricted from dealing in shares.

    After reviewing all management share sales this morning and timing thereof the two executive sales that most concern me are those in a tight timeframe in the five trading days up to the investor day briefing.
    Steven Jones Chief Strategy Net work and Alliances officer sales 26,27 & 28 April, in total 314,135 shares and David Morgan, (I think his title is chief pilot something or other) 350,000 shares 2 May 2016 the day before the briefing.

    Agreed that Steve Jones was involved with the briefing but David Morgan not. At issue, and in compliance with their security trading policy is that executives can request approval to trade and such approval is then valid for 30 trading days so as to give the executive some freedom on their ability to optimise the timing of their transaction...they are after all their shares.
    He suggested the timing of the sales was simply unfortunate. I scanned my desk for a Tui...surely there's one on hand.

    Tony explained that it is not them that make the call on whether an information release is price sensitive or not, that's the NZX's call and they simply whack a "P" symbol denoting price sensitive on it as they see fit.

    I went on to explain my position on the matter as fully articulated in my original communications which you can see earlier in the thread, namely what's the point of having an investor day presentation if you believe all the information contained therein is already known to the market and if it was all already known to the market why did we see significant analyst downgrades afterwards followed by significant a significant SP decline in the four trading days afterwards ?

    He again conceded they had been taken by surprise by the extent of the fall and conceded it the optics weren't all that good.

    I outlined what had happened with Mrs Barlow and Summerset and how they had worked with interested parties and amended their securities trading policy to include a black out period of two weeks prior to the quarterly sales metrics and went on to ask if they would consider amending their security trading policy along similar lines prior to any future investor day briefing. He suggested it could be construed that AIR's monthly operating stat's were of a nature to be not materially dissimilar to SUM's quarterly ones and should we have a blackout period prior to release of each month's stat's ? While a good idea in a practical sense because of the regular nature of same I suggested this wasn't practical in that one month's operating stat's were unlikely to contain information that was as substantive as a full quarter's results like Summerset. He quipped that if Steven Jones CEO of QAN had of sold a whole bunch of shares just before their latest monthly operating stat's it wouldn't have been a good look. I took heart form this that he is taking this matter seriously.

    He has agreed to review the matter again and take it under advisement in terms of whether they have a formal black out period prior to their next investor day briefing. The last one was two years ago.
    I asked were these restricted to analysts and institutions and he said he's get back to me on their policy as he wasn't sure if larger retail holders might be allowed to attend, he noted that FPH had that policy around their briefings.

    Summary - I think they are committed to maintaining a high standard of corporate behaviour. I think they have slipped here but I take heart from his undertaking to review this matter in detail with a view to possibly amending their security trading policy in the future.

    I will follow him up about progress at the next annual meeting.

    We had a brief discussion about the share price and he shared some personal thoughts I will keep to myself (nothing price sensitive and nothing in breech of insider trading policy)...trust me I did ask how the sale process going with VAH...nice try he said Technically I will concede this still looks truly awful, fundamentally I think the company is in good shape and I get an inkling that they are progressing the sale of VAH with all due haste and diligence, (nothing was specifically said). I think we are close to the bottom so I increased my stake earlier this afternoon. (DYOR and this is not to be considered professional advice or a recommendation)

    Sorry he had very limited time and we didn't discuss the freight settlement matter so you'll need to decide for yourself if you think the two executives noted above who sold fairly close to the 9th may stock exchange release about that would have been cognisant of the likely quantum of any possible settlement. Upon reflection this morning, given they weren't involved in the mediation process I didn't see this as a top priority for debate.

    As I said earlier I will stay on his case at the annual meeting and follow Tony Carter up regarding updated an improved security trading policy. I note their April 2016 policy that investor relations e.mailed me is version 3 so there's no reason they can't have a version 4 with improvements, a view I believe I expressed in a robust manner.
    Last edited by Beagle; 19-05-2016 at 02:40 PM.

  4. #6484
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    wow, scolded by the mods for one very minor remark. Time to delete again.

    Bye.

  5. #6485
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    Quote Originally Posted by couta1 View Post
    Unless you have already bought as a hold a while back(At a higher price), in which case it doesn't matter what part of the cycle we are currently in, you just hold, and why not buy in now as a hold at these bargin prices?
    You do see the irony in that statement eh? Im not disagreeing with your strategy but ,buying in at a cheaper price is not so different than selling --averaging down is alot more of an ''active''move than just buy and hold--youve gone from the ''hold''(in buy-hold -sell) to ''buy''

    I guess its a bit of a grey area since you havent reduced your holding,youve increased it--but Im not so sure you can use the ''doesnt matter'' reasoning as it clearly does matter or you wouldnt be topping up.

    Having said that Id like nothing better than to see it all work out (like Xero)

  6. #6486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger View Post
    Spent all day on this and reviewed all material and previous correspondence including a full review of their securities trading policy, (13 pages) and due consideration of what's material information and what isn't.

    Spoke with Tony Carter - After the usual pleasantries A fairly robust debate and exchange of views was expressed:-

    His View - The information contained in the investor day presentation was broadly neutral in terms of its nature and nothing material in there that wasn't already in the market place.
    SP on the day of the presentation went up.

    My view - The market takes time to digest the information and several analysts downgraded shortly afterwards and the SP performance over the following few days is more relevant, down 10%

    His view - Management and directors are very surprised by the SP decline and its certainly not reflective of the current operating environment and strong cash flow.
    He conceded that the optics of this matter weren't the best and he could see my point of view. He went on to say he was just as concerned about the reputation risk as the legal one after I explained that it is easy for investors to perceive that management have taken advantage

    He went on to explain that there has been significant black out periods this year that are additional to those normally encountered and specifically they related to the VAH matter and in and around the time of the announcement that their stake was under review. In effect he said for all of January February and March 2016 executives have been restricted from dealing in shares.

    After reviewing all management share sales this morning and timing thereof the two executive sales that most concern me are those in a tight timeframe in the five trading days up to the investor day briefing.
    Steven Jones Chief Strategy Net work and Alliances officer sales 26,27 & 28 April, in total 314,135 shares and David Morgan, (I think his title is chief pilot something or other) 350,000 shares 2 May 2016 the day before the briefing.

    Agreed that Steve Jones was involved with the briefing but David Morgan not. At issue, and in compliance with their security trading policy is that executives can request approval to trade and such approval is then valid for 30 trading days so as to give the executive some freedom on their ability to optimise the timing of their transaction...they are after all their shares.
    He suggested the timing of the sales was simply unfortunate. I scanned my desk for a Tui...surely there's one on hand.

    Tony explained that it is not them that make the call on whether an information release is price sensitive or not, that's the NZX's call and they simply whack a "P" symbol denoting price sensitive on it as they see fit.

    I went on to explain my position on the matter as fully articulated in my original communications which you can see earlier in the thread, namely what's the point of having an investor day presentation if you believe all the information contained therein is already known to the market and if it was all already known to the market why did we see significant analyst downgrades afterwards followed by significant a significant SP decline in the four trading days afterwards ?

    He again conceded they had been taken by surprise by the extent of the fall and conceded it the optics weren't all that good.

    I outlined what had happened with Mrs Barlow and Summerset and how they had worked with interested parties and amended their securities trading policy to include a black out period of two weeks prior to the quarterly sales metrics and went on to ask if they would consider amending their security trading policy along similar lines prior to any future investor day briefing. He suggested it could be construed that AIR's monthly operating stat's were of a nature to be not materially dissimilar to SUM's quarterly ones and should we have a blackout period prior to release of each month's stat's ? While a good idea in a practical sense because of the regular nature of same I suggested this wasn't practical in that one month's operating stat's were unlikely to contain information that was as substantive as a full quarter's results like Summerset. He quipped that if Steven Jones CEO of QAN had of sold a whole bunch of shares just before their latest monthly operating stat's it wouldn't have been a good look. I took heart form this that he is taking this matter seriously.

    He has agreed to review the matter again and take it under advisement in terms of whether they have a formal black out period prior to their next investor day briefing. The last one was two years ago.
    I asked were these restricted to analysts and institutions and he said he's get back to me on their policy as he wasn't sure if larger retail holders might be allowed to attend, he noted that FPH had that policy around their briefings.

    Summary - I think they are committed to maintaining a high standard of corporate behaviour. I think they have slipped here but I take heart from his undertaking to review this matter in detail with a view to possibly amending their security trading policy in the future.

    I will follow him up about progress at the next annual meeting.

    We had a brief discussion about the share price and he shared some personal thoughts I will keep to myself (nothing price sensitive and nothing in breech of insider trading policy)...trust me I did ask how the sale process going with VAH...nice try he said Technically I will concede this still looks truly awful, fundamentally I think the company is in good shape and I get an inkling that they are progressing the sale of VAH with all due haste and diligence, (nothing was specifically said). I think we are close to the bottom so I increased my stake earlier this afternoon. (DYOR and this is not to be considered professional advice or a recommendation)

    Sorry he had very limited time and we didn't discuss the freight settlement matter so you'll need to decide for yourself if you think the two executives noted above who sold fairly close to the 9th may stock exchange release about that would have been cognisant of the likely quantum of any possible settlement. Upon reflection this morning, given they weren't involved in the mediation process I didn't see this as a top priority for debate.

    As I said earlier I will stay on his case at the annual meeting and follow Tony Carter up regarding updated an improved security trading policy. I note their April 2016 policy that investor relations e.mailed me is version 3 so there's no reason they can't have a version 4 with improvements, a view I believe I expressed in a robust manner.
    I personally think it has become one of those ''dang ,i didnt realize it was going to have THAT much of an affect'' things in terms of management selling--Id be pretty surprised if there was much more of that.

  7. #6487
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    EgyptAir flight missing enroute to Cairo from Paris

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news...ectid=11641360

    Hold on tight... for another roller coaster ride.

  8. #6488
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    Subsequently had it confirmed to me by investor relations that investor days are for institutions and analysts...that explains why even large retail holders like my friend Couta1 didn't get an invite. They feel the annual meeting is the appropriate venue for retail holders with the full board present and extended time for Q & A. Time for a Tui...I would have thought all the top 100 shareholders should get an invite i.e. anyone with over 100,000 shares.

  9. #6489
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger View Post
    Subsequently had it confirmed to me by investor relations that investor days are for institutions and analysts...that explains why even large retail holders like my friend Couta1 didn't get an invite. They feel the annual meeting is the appropriate venue for retail holders with the full board present and extended time for Q & A. Time for a Tui...I would have thought all the top 100 shareholders should get an invite i.e. anyone with over 100,000 shares.
    I agree, it clear which stakeholders matter.

  10. #6490
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    The funny thing is in the US, you would have to prove due process is complied with to the SEC, the onus would be on the company and individuals,

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