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Thread: AIR - Air NZ.

  1. #18241
    Senior Member Marilyn Munroe's Avatar
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    The unions seem surprised the spreadsheet jockeys at Bain have done the dirty on them. Bain are about as likely to stick to their word as the signatories to the Hitler-Stalin pact.

    Commenter Jazz in the SMH article has it nailed;

    "Bain is a leveraged buyout outfit. They will take a well-established but floundering business, strip it down to the few obvious areas of profitability, max out on debt and then cash out on the share market."

    Boop boop de do
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    Been a spot of bother about not much with the dribble to Australia but nevertheless it is growing, with South Australia joining effective immediately.

  3. #18243
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    This Disputes Tribunal decision is not good for AIR. It will be interesting to see if they appeal it. They probably will as this could seriously deplete their cash reserves https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-...JDE67ZZ5GL3J4/

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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    Apparently AIR a pretty unhappy place under new CEO

    Must affect business as airlines are all about people.
    Not so much the CEO more that packages are padded with co performance bonuses and staff travel discounts. Base salaries well below market without bonuses and no one is flying OS. This is applies to all permanent employees not just management.

    Makes it hard to attract new talent. Possible ladder climbing for those willing to stick it out - particularly those with a decent amount of IP. As investors we have to ask ourselves: are they the best people for the job or the only people ?
    Last edited by causecelebre; 29-10-2020 at 08:33 AM.

  5. #18245
    Hunting for more dog food Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    This Disputes Tribunal decision is not good for AIR. It will be interesting to see if they appeal it. They probably will as this could seriously deplete their cash reserves https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-...JDE67ZZ5GL3J4/
    I have always been of the opinion it is egregiously unfair and unreasonable that they can cancel your flights and keep your money. I accept with non refundable tickets if I cancel my flights they can keep my money.

    Meanwhile in other news in the industry it seems many airlines are cancelling orders for new aircraft. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...QSPBVTOQQYL4Q/

    If I recall correctly from the recent conference call at AIR there are about 2,000 staff on incentive programs at AIR. The average salary is about $110,000 right across the airline. I think there's a whole bunch of people that have gotten far too used to the gravy train of endless bonus's and free travel. Time for the prince's and princesses of the travel industry to suck it up and be paid at a more realistic level.. My hearts bleeds for them, (NOT) !
    Last edited by Beagle; 29-10-2020 at 09:42 AM.
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  6. #18246
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    This Disputes Tribunal decision is not good for AIR. It will be interesting to see if they appeal it. They probably will as this could seriously deplete their cash reserves https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-...JDE67ZZ5GL3J4/
    As noted in the article though, Disputes Tribunal decisions do not set precedent. There is no requirement for the courts or even another application to the Disputes Tribunal to rule in accordance with this decision.

  7. #18247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post

    If I recall correctly from the recent conference call at AIR there are about 2,000 staff on incentive programs at AIR. The average salary is about $110,000 right across the airline. I think there's a whole bunch of people that have gotten far too used to the gravy train of endless bonus's and free travel. Time for the prince's and princesses of the travel industry to suck it up and be paid at a more realistic level.. My hearts bleeds for them, (NOT) !
    Another snarky post from you Roger. As an accountant you would/should have an idea on what an average means. There are a lot of people employed below this average of your memorised figure as well as a lot of skilled people above it. You get paid more than an unqualified clerk I am sure. $110.000 these days is not exactly high either. But stick it to AirNZ and it's staff as you continually want to do.

    You were the reason I stopped monitoring this forum for some months. I am on my way again.

  8. #18248
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    Quote Originally Posted by 777 View Post
    Another snarky post from you Roger. As an accountant you would/should have an idea on what an average means. There are a lot of people employed below this average of your memorised figure as well as a lot of skilled people above it. You get paid more than an unqualified clerk I am sure. $110.000 these days is not exactly high either. But stick it to AirNZ and it's staff as you continually want to do.

    You were the reason I stopped monitoring this forum for some months. I am on my way again.
    I love $110,000 is not exactly high for which job......... I have a friend who is a partner in an accountancy firm and they struggle to get qualified accountants for much less than $110,000. I guess that is where Beagle is coming from. A fully qualified accountant is currently being offered slightly over $70,000 per year and there is a massive shortage in them.
    Last edited by Ggcc; 29-10-2020 at 12:12 PM.

  9. #18249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ggcc View Post
    I love $110,000 is not exactly high for which job......... I have a friend who is a partner in an accountancy firm and they struggle to get qualified accountants for much less than $110,000. I guess that is where Beagle is coming from. A fully qualified accountant is currently being offered slightly over $70,000 per year and there is a massive shortage in them.
    And don't forget a village manager of a large retirement facility doesn't get 100k, some sectors seem to be grossly overpaid by comparison.
    Last edited by couta1; 29-10-2020 at 12:20 PM.

  10. #18250
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    Can someone confirm Air Hostesses wages as I heard was around 49k

  11. #18251
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    one good thing about having a short position mixed in amongst mostly longs is that when we get these types of weeks there is some part of your portfolio that benefits from the gloom and doom.

    Thats why I like to have them (shorts) when it seems appropriate -
    I think we discussed this sometime before with regard to exposure to the retirement sector whereby if you had , say short Ryman position, you could go extra hard on your long in say OCA because the sector risk is somewhat mitigated.
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  12. #18252
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    Quote Originally Posted by 777 View Post
    Another snarky post from you Roger. As an accountant you would/should have an idea on what an average means. There are a lot of people employed below this average of your memorised figure as well as a lot of skilled people above it. You get paid more than an unqualified clerk I am sure. $110.000 these days is not exactly high either. But stick it to AirNZ and it's staff as you continually want to do.

    You were the reason I stopped monitoring this forum for some months. I am on my way again.
    AIR are keeping customers money for flights the company cancelled. Right there is a major and egregious breech of the principle's of natural justice. The thousands of people on incentive programs are not getting their bonus's because the airline is bleeding (including depreciation) over $1 Billion a year by my estimation.

    A "little birdie" tells me the biggest accountancy firm in N.Z. is currently embarking on a massive restructure of unprecedented scale, (despite not putting their hand out for massive Govt assistance like some companies have).

    We live in a whole new environment with Covid...people have to suck it up and accept it and cut their cloth to suit their means, that's just how it is.
    I call it as I see it, always have and always will. Not everyone is going to like that or like me for that,, (plenty do), but that's also just how it is.
    There's always the ignore button for those that don't like the barking, feel free to use it.
    Last edited by Beagle; 29-10-2020 at 03:37 PM.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  13. #18253
    Hunting for more dog food Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    one good thing about having a short position mixed in amongst mostly longs is that when we get these types of weeks there is some part of your portfolio that benefits from the gloom and doom.

    Thats why I like to have them (shorts) when it seems appropriate -
    I think we discussed this sometime before with regard to exposure to the retirement sector whereby if you had , say short Ryman position, you could go extra hard on your long in say OCA because the sector risk is somewhat mitigated.
    I had to close out my short position the other day. The party that loaned me the shares came to their senses and wanted them back to sell. Disappointed as I have a feeling the fun for shorters is just starting.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  14. #18254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    I had to close out my short position the other day. The party that loaned me the shares came to their senses and wanted them back to sell. Disappointed as I have a feeling the fun for shorters is just starting.
    sucks
    I think you were a bit harsh on CMC mate , they could have facilitated this for you. but yeh I dont want to get you started or anything... ;+) ,
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  15. #18255
    Hunting for more dog food Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    sucks
    I think you were a bit harsh on CMC mate , they could have facilitated this for you. but yeh I dont want to get you started or anything... ;+) ,
    Fun and profitable while it lasted, but alas only a very small short position. Was a private arrangement...would have been more fun with another zero in terms of the number of shares.

    In news today https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...LGPXVXGR4QLXY/

    It would appear that 787 crew were going to strike "When Covid hit, 787 crew were looking at possible strike action after protracted negotiations had failed to address their poor rates of pay". Probably were going to claim pay relativity with the high rates of the earlier contracts.
    Last edited by Beagle; 29-10-2020 at 08:28 PM.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  16. #18256
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreamcatcher View Post
    Can someone confirm Air Hostesses wages as I heard was around 49k
    Seems the average salary of $110,000 is well shy for Hostesses

    "Pay. Pay for flight attendants varies depending on whether they work on domestic, trans-Tasman or international flights. Flight attendants usually earn between minimum wage and $45,000 a year. Inflight service managers can earn up to $60,000...............Sep 8, 2020"

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    Quote Originally Posted by dreamcatcher View Post
    Seems the average salary of $110,000 is well shy for Hostesses

    "Pay. Pay for flight attendants varies depending on whether they work on domestic, trans-Tasman or international flights. Flight attendants usually earn between minimum wage and $45,000 a year. Inflight service managers can earn up to $60,000...............Sep 8, 2020"
    Certainly golden handcuffs at AIR in the past for many roles were the perks, flight attendants and inflight service manager are often more attracted to the lifestyle than the income and a lot of living expenses were covered. Given Auckland is AIRs main base for other roles, 110k is hardly the living wage in Auckland is it?

    Todays news...we love Savage..

    “Further staff cuts made at Air New Zealand is an appalling situation given it is a vital part of New Zealand’s international trade routes and has received hundreds of millions of dollars of public money this year,” Savage said.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/ind...low-union-says
    Last edited by Raz; 30-10-2020 at 08:34 AM.

  18. #18258
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    Beagle will have a field day with this one in the Herald...

    "The reality is that it's clear to everyone that the defendant has been, and continues to, sell flights which it has no plan on operating at all (i.e. "ghost" flights) in order to raise cash and then stick unwary passengers with flight credit which expires after 12 months."

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/united...QNCUA2VRXWE74/

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    Wasn't it "most trusted brand" or similar in 2019? So much for that.

    Australian media are reporting that the Trans-Tasman bubble will open before Christmas.

  20. #18260
    Hunting for more dog food Beagle's Avatar
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    The harsh reality is that there will be potentially hundreds of thousands of customers stuck with AIR's credits they either can't or don't want to use or can only partially use. A decent airline would allow some sort of trading system so that these credits could be transferred to anyone else (regardless of whether they are family or not), or remove the time limit on the credit altogether, (or for a minimum of 5 years) so at least people could use them as and when they felt completely safe and comfortable to travel.

    As it is I predict hundreds of millions of dollars of credits will expire without ever being used and of course that beg's the obvious question if that wasn't their specific intention all along ?

    The travelling public will have an elephants memory when it comes to the way they have been given the shaft. This will come back and bite AIR, mark my words.

    It would seem we have third world standards when it comes to allowing AIR to pocket consumers money without any decent safeguards compared to the decent protection accorded in most parts of Europe, America and elsewhere. Its time the Govt enacted legislation to stop consumers being blatantly abused.
    Will they be motivated to do this with them being the majority owner of AIR ? I doubt it.
    Last edited by Beagle; 31-10-2020 at 05:57 PM.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

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