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Thread: AIR NZ

  1. #14176
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    The salaries they get is in the expectation they will need to work those hours when needed.

    And I am sure that the public opinion is 50:50 and will be forgotten about in short order.

  2. #14177
    Gnawing on Bones Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 777 View Post
    The salaries they get is in the expectation they will need to work those hours when needed.

    And I am sure that the public opinion is 50:50 and will be forgotten about in short order.
    In my opinion you've got that dead wrong on both counts. I can't remember the last time a union put a gun to the crucial travel plans of over 100,000 Kiwi's at Christmas but it will be a long time before this is forgotten as the optics of the timing of the notified strike action, (subsequently extended to 3 days) don't ever get any worse than this. Publicly threaten over 100,000 families crucial Christmas travelling plans as a bargaining chip and expect them to forgive and forget it quickly...you are dreaming mate. Some will have already made alternative travel arrangements at great cost.
    Last edited by Beagle; 13-12-2018 at 04:31 PM.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  3. #14178
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    We will have to agree to differ then.

  4. #14179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    "Bob" is a good guy and I think you are too but trust me on this mate, there will be no outpouring of grief from the public if the company makes widespread redundancies and ships heaps more work offshore. The way your union reps went about this was truly despicable and heinous and won't be forgotten by the public for a very long time. Experienced engineers make plenty in my opinion, certainly "Bob" is never short of a quid, and many would argue some of your unions ancient practice overtime rates and allowances don't belong in a modern workplace.

    For what its worth I often work evenings and weekends when I have too and never have an expectation that I can recover anything other than my standard rate. Heaps of managers I know work 60 hour weeks when they have too and get nothing other than their regular salary. In fact show me a manager these days that gets away with working just 40 hours for his salary and I'll show you someone that will not ever be advancing within that company.
    I don't do personal stuff so won't get into anything on here...however

    From my experience managers come and go almost like clockwork...
    If a mangers stuff's up there's usually an excuse or if it's really bad they are moved on....

    If an engineer stuff's up they are wrapped over the knuckles...
    If an engineer stuff's up really bad 350 people die...

    I will let people decide for themselves which one they would rather have overworked and under paid....

    Just an aside this could have all been averted a year ago....last year the unions sort a 9 month term, but the COMPANY insisted on a full year again...this could have all played out back in August or September....

    By the way I forgot earlier...there was a"C" check on a 777 carried out in AKL earlier this year.. and while I won't quote figures on this site it was considerably cheaper in the (100's of thousands) than what it would have cost had it be done overseas FACT... so yeah send more away if you want to burn more of the companies money!!!

    Engineers are actually a very cheap insurance policy, you are looking at thousands or dollars an hour to have a plane out of action...far more than than an engineers hourly rate...
    As far as the job the cleaners do...don't even let me get started about the stuff they see and have to deal with... You honestly can't pay them enough, Planes are absolutely disgusting if you know where to look!

    Remember in airline terms AIR is just a pimple on the arse of the total world airline fleet.... We simply don't have the scale to demand maintenance slots and prices ... If you owned an MRO will you take AIR's 8 checks a year or an US carriers 100 checks??

  5. #14180
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    Provocative, food for thought. Great to have some inside knowledge sharing. Thanks for that.
    BAA

  6. #14181
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    There are ways of negotiating and then there's blackmailing the company and the public. I think we should just agree to disagree on this one Benny1.
    What is not in dispute is that over 100,000 travelers and their families have been stressed out by the actions of a small group of AIR's employees, some of whom would have taken the cautionary move of making alternative travel plans at great cost.
    This message just into my inbox from AIR
    [I]Kia ora Beagle,
    The team at Air New Zealand would like to acknowledge how stressful this past week has been for customers booked to travel in the lead up to Christmas. It’s great to be able to confirm the threat of strike action was lifted late last night so you can continue to have confidence in your travel plans as we are now on track to operate our flights as normal at this very important time of year.
    We are currently heading into the busiest travel period of the year. Air New Zealand will carry six million customers this summer with up to 600 flights a day at peak times. Next Friday 21 December, 30,000 customers are expected to pass through Auckland Airport’s domestic terminal alone.
    If you’re travelling this summer, there are a few things you can do to ensure your journey is a smooth one. Please take the time to download our app on your smartphone – or update it if you don’t have the latest version. It’s free and is the best way for us to communicate with you and keep you up to date with real time flight information including last minute schedule delays or gate changes.
    Unfortunately, schedule disruptions do happen from time to time and our Travel Alerts service is a great source of up to date information in these situations. We strongly encourage you to sign up for the service and ensure your current contact details are entered into your booking detail, should we need to reach you while you’re on the go.
    Do make sure you get to the airport in plenty of time. With the high volumes of people travelling, expect queues at check in and security and make sure you allow yourself plenty of time for a stress-free journey.
    Finally, don’t overlook travel insurance, even for domestic journeys. While we’re all hoping for a long idyllic summer, every year things outside our control such as summer storms can play havoc with customers’ travel plans. For peace of mind we always recommend travellers take out travel insurance.
    Thank you again to those customers affected by the uncertainty of the past week for your patience and support.
    Have a very safe and happy holiday period.

    Ngā mihi
    Air New Zealand

    Emphasis added.
    Not sure what Nga mihi means...suppose I need to get with the times a bit more and expand my Maori language skills.
    Last edited by Beagle; 13-12-2018 at 09:10 PM.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  7. #14182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    ....For what its worth I often work evenings and weekends when I have too and never have an expectation that I can recover anything other than my standard rate....
    If you did not spend so much of the normal working week repeatedly posting the same opinion on here you would not need to do evenings and weekends.
    om mani peme hum

  8. #14183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snow Leopard View Post
    If you did not spend so much of the normal working week repeatedly posting the same opinion on here you would not need to do evenings and weekends.
    what are you on about, its not the same opinion all the time. it changes a lot!
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  9. #14184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny1 View Post
    I don't do personal stuff so won't get into anything on here...however

    From my experience managers come and go almost like clockwork...
    If a mangers stuff's up there's usually an excuse or if it's really bad they are moved on....

    If an engineer stuff's up they are wrapped over the knuckles...
    If an engineer stuff's up really bad 350 people die...

    I will let people decide for themselves which one they would rather have overworked and under paid....

    Just an aside this could have all been averted a year ago....last year the unions sort a 9 month term, but the COMPANY insisted on a full year again...this could have all played out back in August or September....

    By the way I forgot earlier...there was a"C" check on a 777 carried out in AKL earlier this year.. and while I won't quote figures on this site it was considerably cheaper in the (100's of thousands) than what it would have cost had it be done overseas FACT... so yeah send more away if you want to burn more of the companies money!!!

    Engineers are actually a very cheap insurance policy, you are looking at thousands or dollars an hour to have a plane out of action...far more than than an engineers hourly rate...
    As far as the job the cleaners do...don't even let me get started about the stuff they see and have to deal with... You honestly can't pay them enough, Planes are absolutely disgusting if you know where to look!

    Remember in airline terms AIR is just a pimple on the arse of the total world airline fleet.... We simply don't have the scale to demand maintenance slots and prices ... If you owned an MRO will you take AIR's 8 checks a year or an US carriers 100 checks??
    Well you have my support and I think you are underpaid for the work you do, Engineers as a group are underpaid in relative terms to other professions. I think many understand industrial relations and what really happens behind closed doors in NZ as they face it in their own work places, including at AIR. People only care about how it effects them and in the end you are the only ones in your corner.

    People have already moved on..and that is just the way it is.

  10. #14185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
    Well you have my support and I think you are underpaid for the work you do, Engineers as a group are underpaid in relative terms to other professions. I think many understand industrial relations and what really happens behind closed doors in NZ as they face it in their own work places, including at AIR. People only care about how it effects them and in the end you are the only ones in your corner.

    People have already moved on..and that is just the way it is.
    I get frustrated with the whole ..... (insert occupation here) are underpaid. So many industries and occupations have exceptionally skilled staff and responsibilities that could be linked to protecting life, motor mechanics for one, we drive a lot more than we fly and many more killed on the roads than in the air. Paramedics currently on a uniform strike, if you ever get hurt or sick, have a heart attack or other emergency your life is in the hands of someone on a starting salary of not much more than $50,000 p/a. The top of the tree intensive care paramedics get $80,000 odd a year, these people keep you alive when someone else crosses the centre line hitting your car with your kids in it, they work weekends, nights and stressful jobs in their own way, nurses, teachers the list goes on, how successful would our children be without good teachers? Support services of lower qualified people, they all have an important role to fill as I cant imagine the upper middle class rolling up their sleeves. What's more important, the engineer servicing an engine or the people putting the technical advice out telling them how to do it? The pilots flying the plane or the people putting the fuel in, testing the fuel, making it the right way? All cogs in the wheel.

    There is so much more to things than we know, everyone is worth their salt and over the years company greed, CEO greed and the old boys club has continued to find new heights in so many businesses. France is a good example where people are kicking back, I look at my children and wonder what will be left of society as it creeps even further. When I had shares in AIR I was impressed with the bonuses when good profits were made, they could have even gone further and as a shareholder it didn't bother me one bit if it reduced my piece of the pie. I don't think the union went about it the right way, Christmas and families holidays is not a bargaining chip and I wouldn't hire the bright spark who's idea it was as management wont forget and at the end of the day they make the decisions that effect the futures of said engineers and my thoughts are they deserve more remuneration but regardless of the merits that strike action was a step too far given the potential collateral damage.

  11. #14186
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    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    what are you on about, its not the same opinion all the time. it changes a lot!
    LOL because guess what ?...the economic situation and dynamic forces in the market both locally and overseas are in a constant state of flux. He who reads the changing tea leaves and changing tides of economic fortune the best gets to retire the most comfortably.

    Quote Originally Posted by workingdad View Post
    I get frustrated with the whole ..... (insert occupation here) are underpaid. So many industries and occupations have exceptionally skilled staff and responsibilities that could be linked to protecting life, motor mechanics for one, we drive a lot more than we fly and many more killed on the roads than in the air. Paramedics currently on a uniform strike, if you ever get hurt or sick, have a heart attack or other emergency your life is in the hands of someone on a starting salary of not much more than $50,000 p/a. The top of the tree intensive care paramedics get $80,000 odd a year, these people keep you alive when someone else crosses the centre line hitting your car with your kids in it, they work weekends, nights and stressful jobs in their own way, nurses, teachers the list goes on, how successful would our children be without good teachers? Support services of lower qualified people, they all have an important role to fill as I cant imagine the upper middle class rolling up their sleeves. What's more important, the engineer servicing an engine or the people putting the technical advice out telling them how to do it? The pilots flying the plane or the people putting the fuel in, testing the fuel, making it the right way? All cogs in the wheel.

    There is so much more to things than we know, everyone is worth their salt and over the years company greed, CEO greed and the old boys club has continued to find new heights in so many businesses. France is a good example where people are kicking back, I look at my children and wonder what will be left of society as it creeps even further. When I had shares in AIR I was impressed with the bonuses when good profits were made, they could have even gone further and as a shareholder it didn't bother me one bit if it reduced my piece of the pie. I don't think the union went about it the right way, Christmas and families holidays is not a bargaining chip and I wouldn't hire the bright spark who's idea it was as management wont forget and at the end of the day they make the decisions that effect the futures of said engineers and my thoughts are they deserve more remuneration but regardless of the merits that strike action was a step too far given the potential collateral damage.
    What a superb post which sums up the situation perfectly. I couldn't agree more.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  12. #14187
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    This should cheer Beags up.

    Tigerair Australia pilots vote to take industrial action

    I especially like the bit about "take measures to fly slower"
    om mani peme hum

  13. #14188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snow Leopard View Post
    This should cheer Beags up.

    Tigerair Australia pilots vote to take industrial action

    I especially like the bit about "take measures to fly slower"
    Yes, but contrast with E Tu's position:

    "After two years of bargaining, the decision to take protected industrial action was not made lightly," says AFAP industrial officer James Lauchland.

    "The industrial action will not be conducted on Christmas Day or Boxing Day, as the federation’s members want to ensure passengers can travel to be with their families and friends."

  14. #14189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snow Leopard View Post
    This should cheer Beags up.


    Tigerair Australia pilots vote to take industrial action

    I especially like the bit about "take measures to fly slower"
    Has.. I liked the bit that says refuse to fly aircraft with "minor deferred defects".
    The airline will be grounded straight away!
    Don't think there is an aircraft flying that doesn't have something in the log book!

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