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Thread: AIR NZ

  1. #16216
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyTheHorse View Post
    It's embarrassing compared to some competitor offerings. Cant beat Qatar Qsuite if going to Europe.
    I think that's a very fair comment. Really the nightmare liner has these 3 classes of seats, (Marketing term then fair description)
    Business Premier = premium economy
    Premium economy = normal economy
    economy = we really mean it, this is as economical seating as we can possibly get away with.

    Also really embarrassing is the up to 9% interest rate AIR is being charged, (when the Govt can borrow as low as 0.5% with Kiwi Bonds) v Qantas at 2.75%.
    N.Z. Govt are effectively clipping their wings.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  2. #16217
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    ... and you cant really blame Greg

    I'm hoping that Govt are trying to justify this to the public by being so business minded, but I fear it is a lifeline round the throat for govt control
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  3. #16218
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    Loan terms were negotiated on an arms length basis with independent advisors ....whatever that means

    Shylock rates because they really stuffed ....go to lender of resort and hope he’s not to tough.

    What govt borrows at and what aussie banks lend to Qantas at irrelevant ..except a sign of the desperate situation AIR is in
    “Just consider that maybe the probability of you being wrong is higher than you think.”

  4. #16219
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    ... and you cant really blame Greg

    I'm hoping that Govt are trying to justify this to the public by being so business minded, but I fear it is a lifeline round the throat for govt control
    I have a theory that at that moment in time Labour did not want to be seen as propping up big business unless it was on arms length commercial terms. Since then they seem to have had a rethink and propping up any business that keeps people employed is seen as being politically correct.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  5. #16220
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    Loan terms were negotiated on an arms length basis with independent advisors ....whatever that means

    Shylock rates because they really stuffed ....go to lender of resort and hope he’s not to tough.

    What govt borrows at and what aussie banks lend to Qantas at irrelevant ..except a sign of the desperate situation AIR is in
    I guess this buys them time. It gives them certainty for a few months, which should be enough time to either sort out a rights issue or alternative finance. I'm sure they are looking at both of those options right now for the near future.

  6. #16221
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    Singapore airlines one of the first cab's off the rank with a massive deeply discounted rights issue. https://www.theedgesingapore.com/new...vertible-bonds

    Check out how much of their fleet is currently grounded !
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  7. #16222
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    Interesting article from Bloomberg on which airlines might not survive and how long cash reserves may last. Annoyingly has left off Air NZ.

    The Airlines Most in Danger of Going Under During the Crisis

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    Changes of a capital raising at 0.20c ?

  9. #16224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    I have a theory that at that moment in time Labour did not want to be seen as propping up big business unless it was on arms length commercial terms. Since then they seem to have had a rethink and propping up any business that keeps people employed is seen as being politically correct.
    I think your wrong there mate! Propping up businesses that keep the economy running more like. In essence buying time to allow us to knock the bastard off and still have businesses to function afterwards.

    I'm interested to know what you think is a better option? Let them all go belly up?

  10. #16225
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedrunkfish View Post
    I think your wrong there mate! Propping up businesses that keep the economy running more like. In essence buying time to allow us to knock the bastard off and still have businesses to function afterwards.

    I'm interested to know what you think is a better option? Let them all go belly up?
    The support would have been exactly that if it was on normal commercial terms that AIR borrow at, their external loans range from 1.0 - 3.0%. Unwittingly or otherwise, AIR is on a direct flight path to what will ostensibly amount to nationalisation.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  11. #16226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    Singapore airlines one of the first cab's off the rank with a massive deeply discounted rights issue. https://www.theedgesingapore.com/new...vertible-bonds
    Temasek is Singapore Super Fund isn't it? so its comin from the guvmint.

    Edit Answer the questions

    Yes it was started in '74 to manage Singapore's assets and is solely owned by the Minister of Finance (Singapore). Operates on a commercial basis and the a majority shareholder in SIA.
    (So its a very similar situation in a way to us really !)
    Last edited by peat; 27-03-2020 at 06:52 PM.
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  12. #16227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    The support would have been exactly that if it was on normal commercial terms that AIR borrow at, their external loans range from 1.0 - 3.0%. Unwittingly or otherwise, AIR is on a direct flight path to what will ostensibly amount to nationalisation.
    Perhaps. But a privately owned airline, facing the virtual shutdown of its operations for an extended time, would fold and go out of business in these circumstances. I'm no fan of nationalisation but a national airline is essential for NZ's economy in 2020.

    Disc: I don't invest in airlines.
    Last edited by macduffy; 27-03-2020 at 07:26 PM.

  13. #16228
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    A lot of people in the general public have been loading up on these.. flavour of the month

  14. #16229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadalac123 View Post
    A lot of people in the general public have been loading up on these.. flavour of the month
    Do you know for a fact that “a lot of people in the general public” who have been “loading up” on this? Or just an opinion? I reckon they’re mugs if they have and going to be lambs to the slaughter soon enough.

    AIR is in big trouble, soothing the cashflow for the meantime, with a modest government injection will lasting a few weeks is one thing, but the balance sheet damage will be long lasting.

    I’m with Beagle on this one, it’s a train wreck, sadly through no fault of its own except maybe not moving quickly enough to quarterise the damage. Whole business is basically shutting down!

  15. #16230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    Do you know for a fact that “a lot of people in the general public” who have been “loading up” on this? Or just an opinion? I reckon they’re mugs if they have and going to be lambs to the slaughter soon enough.

    AIR is in big trouble, soothing the cashflow for the meantime, with a modest government injection will lasting a few weeks is one thing, but the balance sheet damage will be long lasting.

    I’m with Beagle on this one, it’s a train wreck, sadly through no fault of its own except maybe not moving quickly enough to quarterise the damage. Whole business is basically shutting down!
    A lot of the millennial Sharesies brigade I know have been buying in.

    There is a genuine belief that any share/stock at a discount to it's recent performance is a "good buy".

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