AIR - Air NZ.

[Beagle]

Was travelling from Auckland to Napier today. Had two failed landings in Napier and the flight diverted back to Auckland. We were in the AIR for three hours!!! We got offered to try fly again at 5pm on another floghr and my answer was no thank you so I took the flight credit.

Weather has been an absolute shocker. What are we up too now, the third one in 100 year weather event in the last month ?

Poor old Mum's going to have an "interesting" flight right through the middle of "Debbie" today on here way to Dunedin. Just as well there will be two highly experienced AIR pilots with many many thousands of hours of experience at the controls who have come up through the flight school ranks rather than being trained predominantly on a simulator like a lot of other airlines do...those simulators have a simulation for losing an engine mid flight in a bad storm and then landing in a 30 knot crosswind on one engine right ? Another problem if the Govt ever were to sell AIR is we could end up with a fourth rate airline even worse than Jetstar as Jetstar's only competition...

[Beagle]

Stealing from its own citizens. The Govt is ripping us kiwis off (including this hypocrite with esp domestic fares ; unless you are on a main route and can pick up the cheap fares on their time frames which seldom fits.They sure are looking after us; yeah right hand me and Marylyn a Moet. Sell their share I reckon and have a few caveats in place re kiwi employees etc. Time to leave business to run businesss. And if this great current management (who reward themselves over handsomely) did stuff up again well then the Govt could do it all again. sorta of a virtuose möbius loop

Thats not a good enough reason to move to Auckland i never want to become a JAFA.
Drink your Tui JAFA, I'm having a nice Pinot Gris myself.

I'd prefer not to comment on the name you've called yourself but it appears judging by the tone of your posts and words chosen this issue has really got under your skin so perhaps you should sell your shares as an effective protest ? Owning shares and receiving extremely healthy dividends so you can afford to enjoy regular fine wine appears to be somewhat morally repugnant to you.

Chill mate, nothing you I or Marilyn might say will effect any decision the government might make at some future point.

[dobby41]

Another problem if the Govt ever were to sell AIR is we could end up with a fourth rate airline even worse than Jetstar as Jetstar's only competition...

Why would the quality of the airline be so closely coupled to Govt ownership?
I don't think there is shred of evidence for that.

Maybe the Govt should own everything if it is so great at managing business'?

[Beagle]

Why would the quality of the airline be so closely coupled to Govt ownership?
I don't think there is shred of evidence for that.

Maybe the Govt should own everything if it is so great at managing business'?

Anyone who has flown Jetstar knows that Qantas through their subsidiary are providing a second, (third or forth rate ?) service. Many other airlines train their pilots predominantly on simulators, that's a well known fact. All the evidence you need right there. Apart from that AIR as previously mentioned have conducted a major international study and found our airfares to be over all very competitive. Some people out in the regions may sometimes like to vent their spleen about regional airfare prices but they're generally very quiet when it comes to the upsides of living in the region in relation to air travel...like 5 minutes travel to the airport and vastly cheaper parking rates. Swings and roundabouts...

I reiterate the analogy point I made recently, if one of the major overseas owned oil companies dominated 80% of the fuel supply in N.Z. would fuel prices be where they are today ? We could rely on Etihad or one of the other sand state owned airlines to charge Kiwi's a fair price for domestic airfares, predominantly employ Kiwi's and pay circa $300m a year in PAYE, $150m a year in tax here couldn't we ?. Of course we could, (sarcasm intended).
As an aside I believe the Commerce commission decision to allow the merger of Z and Caltex to enable a somewhat dominant position was truly appalling.
I'm done with this "ownership" debate, life is too short....if other people want to waste their time regurgitating the issue over and over because of some axe they want to grind....I suppose that's their prerogative.

[dobby41]

So what you are saying, via your analogy, is that the govt ownership is having a restraining effect on prices.
Or is it that it is the NZ ownership (as opposed to foreign ownership) that is having that?
To former would imply the govt having more input into the running of the company than it does and the latter could be sorted with a limit % on ownership.

Also if this model is so good for AIR why isn't it used for other companies of national significance (like retirement villages etc)?

[Bobdn]

On a more positive note, heading off to Colombia this year. The absolute cheapest fare I could get was with AirNZ to Buenos Aires and then onto Bogotá. $2300 all up! Can you believe that? Love that South American​ link.

[Beagle]

The provision of a widespread network of safe, efficient and effective air travel is in the national interest which is why a lot of Governments around the world either own or have a significant stake in their national airline.
Without this you can get a third rate service where another airline with their own national interest will provide an aging fleet with very limited spare parts, engineering or staff backup and they only cherry pick the highly profitable routes.
Industries throughout N.Z. need the widespread, reliable, safe, efficient and effective service AIR provides...if owned by another country the network may be substantially rationalized and run in their national interest not ours.

[dobby41]

if owned by another country the network may be substantially rationalized and run in their national interest not ours.

You talk as if there are only 2 option - govt own or owned by another country.
For a person who shows a strong ability in detailed analysis this seems to show some bias.

[Beagle]

You talk as if there are only 2 option - govt own or owned by another country.
For a person who shows a strong ability in detailed analysis this seems to show some bias.

I have been responding to Mailyn's and joshuatree's posts which have been in support of selling the airline outright.

[777]

You talk as if there are only 2 option - govt own or owned by another country.
For a person who shows a strong ability in detailed analysis this seems to show some bias.

Take a look back in history and see what happened to AIR when Brierley Investments took a large controlling interest.