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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by BullishBear View Post
    Thanks huxley!,
    If anything I need to hold true to doing something about my views rather than just always being the couch critic. It is beyond me why these politicians don't have the guts or fortitude to actually do something meaningful when it comes to change. No one seems to have come up with the formula or format to affect serious change. That is what I am on the hunt to do. Learn the secrets of the trade then apply honesty and pourpose to the direction of prosperity with unity and abundance for all, it cannot be that hard.
    I think you have touched on the difference between a career politician and an idealist who gets elected.
    A Career pollies' first objective is to get re-elected, so that they can supposedly effect change. Of course in doing so they sell their ideals down the river, change nothing and take a fat salary.

  2. #32
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    This opportunistic party has just announced their unconditional basic income for youth (kid ages between 18 and 23), of $200 after tax a week. No questions asked. WOW!!! Don't cry for them NZ as this is after all just your tax money. Hate it when a political party only knew one thing, BRIBE.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGR367 View Post
    This opportunistic party has just announced their unconditional basic income for youth (kid ages between 18 and 23), of $200 after tax a week. No questions asked. WOW!!! Don't cry for them NZ as this is after all just your tax money. Hate it when a political party only knew one thing, BRIBE.
    My view is that TOP is not doing this as a bribe, they're doing it as they believe it is a socially effective policy.
    I'm not saying it is, but Gareth strikes me as a rationalist who does what he thinks is the best thing to do, not a person seeking power at any cost to the country.
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BullishBear View Post
    Thanks huxley!,
    If anything I need to hold true to doing something about my views rather than just always being the couch critic. It is beyond me why these politicians don't have the guts or fortitude to actually do something meaningful when it comes to change. No one seems to have come up with the formula or format to affect serious change. That is what I am on the hunt to do. Learn the secrets of the trade then apply honesty and pourpose to the direction of prosperity with unity and abundance for all, it cannot be that hard.
    Politicians will be limited by the voters who on the whole don't like change.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGR367 View Post
    This opportunistic party has just announced their unconditional basic income for youth (kid ages between 18 and 23), of $200 after tax a week. No questions asked. WOW!!! Don't cry for them NZ as this is after all just your tax money. Hate it when a political party only knew one thing, BRIBE.
    I think this is a great age group to target UBI at. It completely removes the incentive to not work (under the existing system you loose the benefit and can thus end up hardly better off if you work, whereas the UBI you keep regardless). It removes the dependence on parental income for Uni students (sorry, you get to start your working life with a much bigger financial handicap than your friend sitting next to you, because your parents earn a little too much, and are PAYE only so have no way or cheating the system).

    For those who are already getting ahead (or struggling away trying to do the right thing), it could really help them to accelerate their financial position. Or if they squander it, a good chunk will find it's way back into the coffers via tax anyway.

    Anger is building out there. Something needs to change. I think this is a great step in the right direction.

    I actually really like it. (Was struggling with the idea of UBI in general, but I really think it makes sense for this age group). May well be the clincher for them getting my vote.

    (Interesting, one commentator rightly pointed out the universal super is just another form of UBI for 65+ folk).

    Disc: Have tended towards the far right over the years, but have for a long time felt uncomfortable with their bene bashing.
    Last edited by cyclist; 18-07-2017 at 02:08 PM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGR367 View Post
    This opportunistic party has just announced their unconditional basic income for youth (kid ages between 18 and 23), of $200 after tax a week. No questions asked. WOW!!! Don't cry for them NZ as this is after all just your tax money. Hate it when a political party only knew one thing, BRIBE.
    I'm with Peat on this one. Is a tax cut a bribe, is targeted social spending a bribe are the greens bribing beneficiaries. Probably but hopefully they also think it is in the best interests of the country as a whole first and foremost and their voter base as a secondary consideration.

    p.s. well said cyclist.
    Last edited by Aaron; 18-07-2017 at 02:09 PM.

  7. #37
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    A test bed for a UBI would be the plan I reckon. Free money would get a lot of traction with that age group and their parents. Expect lots of positive anecdata, especially from UBI proponents who would be invested in keeping it the media ad infinitum.

    The cost would be lost in the overall scheme of things so most people apart from the Taxpayers Union would not be all that aware of it.

  8. #38
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    I'll keep looking at the polls, but seems to me they haven't got a snowball's show of getting anywhere near 5%, and probably much much less. They won't take an electorate, so there'll be a few votes confined to the rubbish bin in this election. Could be this years internet party.

  9. #39
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    if it were fiscally feasible I actually quite like the idea of a UBI, however i really struggle with giving it to young people as cash. I'd prefer the subsidy to be provided via food, lodgings or education expenses. or some other tangible service maybe free doctors or dentists or public transport. Etc.etc Provide some of the basics so that they can do whatever they want , it might be productive, it might not.

    As much as I hate to be cynical about youth I really do think that free cash money would subsidise indulgence. Or am I just self projecting
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  10. #40
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    So Gareth has come out today saying that the $200 payment is a baby step towards a full UBI.

    As others have said, I agree that TOP is unlikely to be in the Parliament this year, but he has started a bit of a debate in a few directions. Only a bit. There does not seem to be huge interest outside the beltway. Or within it.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    As much as I hate to be cynical about youth I really do think that free cash money would subsidise indulgence. Or am I just self projecting
    Probably will for most kids, I know I pissed a lot of my student allowance up against the wall and regret the waste of money and brain cells now but in a way people have to learn their own lessons. The sooner they make mistakes the sooner they can take responsibility for themselves and their actions and decide what the best options in life are for them.

  12. #42
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    Policy No. 12. Is it going ot eb the registration of Cats and giving neigbpurs the opportunity to euthenase strays that wander onto their sections. Now my interest is sparked I'll have to look again at TOP. Despite my dislike of Morgan.

    I've already decided where my electorate vote isnt going but must give though to the party vote.

  13. #43
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    I see some TOP electorate candidates in the herald this morning. Sadly I am not in Auckland Central so can't vote Mika. I still think an ex-all black or shortland street actor would appeal more to the masses.
    TOP still gets my party vote though.
    Bill can't buy me with his $1,000 for my pocket although it is nice that he will put the same $1,000.00 in everyone's pocket whether you need it or not. I don't think he understands how govt is supposed to work. People generally don't give a **** about each other so we have a central govt who we pay money to, to help out the struggling people we don't care about. Not suppress capital gain taxes and policies that help the wealthy and screw over the next generation. Not surprising to see national strongly supported by the Chinese. Anyone see the program last night about "who owns NZ". I reckon a NZ passport should be required to own land in NZ that way the older generation HAS to give a **** about the next generation as they can't just sell out to foreigners. They have to ensure the next generation is successful as well.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    ... People generally don't give a **** about each other so we have a central govt who we pay money to, to help out the struggling people we don't care about.
    I am bit less cynical - I think people by and large do care about others from immediate family to extended family and friends and others. Also with strangers they do care, especially if issues such as poverty impinge on safety (increased crime) and environment and ease of living.

    Not suppress capital gain taxes and policies that help the wealthy and screw over the next generation.
    With some wealthy people -those who have appreciating assets but which are earning a good income for example - I think TOP's reforms would help them too.

    Not surprising to see national strongly supported by the Chinese. Anyone see the program last night about "who owns NZ". I reckon a NZ passport should be required to own land in NZ that way the older generation HAS to give a **** about the next generation as they can't just sell out to foreigners. They have to ensure the next generation is successful as well.
    It is baffling that unlike many other countries NZ does not have residential or NZ citizenship restricitions with respect to residential land especially.

    Apart from British Commonwealth citizens (including NZers) who arrived some time ago, Australia also requires that voters in national elections should have Australian citizenship.

  15. #45
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    I agree .Even more baffling is the fact that IRD or NZ Govt have no records of how many foreign buyers have bought houses. The IRD is only int in tax to pay..There is no register of foreign buyers!!?.This has to change as it makes us vulnerable.

    34,000 new arrivals last year. Its said that a 1% rise in pop results in an8% rise in house prices (Reserve bank).

    30 years ago we opened up our housing supply to foreign money.

    A trillion $ left China last year.Chinese are investing in particular in Auckland, Sydney and Vancouver
    We are making it easy for rich people to come here through our Investor visa programmes. 121` multimillionaires have gained entry to NZ by putting $10 mill in NZ investments.

    822 millionaires,545 from China have entered with cat 2 visas requiring $1.5 million i investment.

    85% of these people were putting there money into safe Govt and corporate bonds rather than entreprenerial situations that would create new jobs. Unlike other commonwealth countries we haven't scrapped these because of the low returns. Aus and Gt Britain revised them after seeing very little in it for them but plenty for the investor.

    Canada discovered that the Investor programme was a sham . Investor migrants declare a lower income then any other immigrant group ,LOWER then even the Refugees!
    source "
    Who Owns NZ now" by Bryan Bruce Housing crisis documentary pulls no punches on eve of election ...
    Last edited by Joshuatree; 14-09-2017 at 12:00 AM.

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