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  1. #1
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    Default Share payment date 31 March

    When the share payment date is the 31/03/2017 but the funds are not deposited in to my bank account (ANZ Securities), in this case will probable be Monday 03/04/2017, which is after this tax year ending 31/03/2017. Are these dividends included in the tax return, ending 31/03/2017 or are they to be included in this years tax period ending 31/03/2018.
    Last edited by waikare; 01-04-2017 at 05:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by waikare View Post
    When the share payment date is the 31/03/2017 but the funds are not deposited in to my bank account (ANZ Securities), in this case will probable be Monday 03/04/2017, which is after this tax year ending 31/03/2017. Are these dividends included in the tax return, ending 31/03/2017 or are they to be included in this years tax period ending 31/03/2018.
    If the share payment date on your dividend statement is 31/3/17 or before, then you would include them in the tax year ending 31/3/17.

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    Quote Originally Posted by waikare View Post
    When the share payment date is the 31/03/2017 but the funds are not deposited in to my bank account (ANZ Securities), in this case will probable be Monday 03/04/2017, which is after this tax year ending 31/03/2017. Are these dividends included in the tax return, ending 31/03/2017 or are they to be included in this years tax period ending 31/03/2018.
    Be careful of asking for advice on this forum, especially about tax imo, some might be tempted to offer advice even though they have absolutely no qualifications to do so, which is actually illegal. You might want to ask a tax accountant if you are not sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    Be careful of asking for advice on this forum, especially about tax imo, some might be tempted to offer advice even though they have absolutely no qualifications to do so, which is actually illegal. You might want to ask a tax accountant if you are not sure.
    He asked a basic question which requires a simply answer, it's black and white, if your payment date is on or before 31st March then dividend income is included in that years income, not the following years, nothing illegal about answering that question

  5. #5
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    Well replied couta1

    And Waikari i think you will see the deposit early Monday morning in your account and it will show as deposited at 31st March 17.

  6. #6
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    Thumbs down Tax is never simply black and white

    If you do your accounts on an accrual basis then it appears in the year when it becomes a receivable [year to 31-Mar-17].
    However if you do your accounts on a cash basis it appears in the year it is received [year to 31-Mar-18].

    couta1 is making an assumption which may be valid but, I assume, probably is not.

    waikare is possibly confused now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paper Tiger View Post
    If you do your accounts on an accrual basis then it appears in the year when it becomes a receivable [year to 31-Mar-17].
    However if you do your accounts on a cash basis it appears in the year it is received [year to 31-Mar-18].

    couta1 is making an assumption which may be valid but, I assume, probably is not.

    waikare is possibly confused now.

    Best Wishes
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    I think you are also confusing things, as 777 has already pointed out, waikare will find when he checks his account on 3/4/17 that payment was indeed received on 31/3/17 therefore should be included in the tax year ending 31/3/17 on either accounting basis.
    Last edited by couta1; 02-04-2017 at 06:10 AM.

  8. #8
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    If I get it in my bank before the end of FY I include it in that years tax. If it doesn't show up until April I don't. I deal with these as a cash payments status not on invoice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by couta1 View Post
    I think you are also confusing things, as 777 has already pointed out, waikare will find when he checks his account on 3/4/17 that payment was indeed received on 31/3/17 therefore should be included in the tax year ending 31/3/17 on either accounting basis.
    The dividend with the payment date of the 31/03/17 have not as yet (9.10am) appeared in my account. I guess I go with G on's ... that is if the money is deposited in April then I'll included it in the year ending 31/03/18.

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    Quote Originally Posted by waikare View Post
    The dividend with the payment date of the 31/03/17 have not as yet (9.10am) appeared in my account. I guess I go with G on's ... that is if the money is deposited in April then I'll included it in the year ending 31/03/18.
    Give it an hour or so. I transferred some money to my account on Friday and it is yet to show up. Also March interest has not appeared yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 777 View Post
    Give it an hour or so. I transferred some money to my account on Friday and it is yet to show up. Also March interest has not appeared yet.
    Yes, they can be a bit slow on doing the morning sweep at times, March interest showing now for me at 9.30.
    Last edited by couta1; 03-04-2017 at 08:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by couta1 View Post
    Yes, they can be a bit slow on doing the morning sweep at times, March interest showing now for me at 9.30.
    My interest was there just after 9.00 am.

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    Unhappy The eternal outstanding payment

    As an aside, way back in Oct 2012 I moved, by necessity, my mail service provider from Australia Post to PrivateBox (https://www.privatebox.co.nz/ - I heartily recommend them) in preparation of my move from Malaysia to Indonesia via the Philippines, Thailand & Taiwan.

    Somewhere in all that a dividend cheque from Codan (ASX:CDA) went AWOL.

    Every six months since then I get an automated reminder that I have not yet been paid this dividend and to contact the registry.

    The registry and I gave up a long time ago trying to actually persuade the system to do either of
    putting the money in a bank account of mine or
    sending a cheque to any postal address which I have access to.

    I just press the acknowledge button to make the reminder go away and wait another six months to press it again.

    It has never been declared as income.

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    Paper Tiger
    Last edited by Snow Leopard; 03-04-2017 at 11:02 AM.
    om mani peme hum

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    I would suggest you check with the IRD. In this instance they'll tell you the same thing as a tax accountant and they're free.

    Waikare was it a NZ dividend? Is there a dividend payment advice online at your registry dated 31/3? Has the RWT already been deducted in the payment advice dated 31/3?

    Accounting on a cash basis is only accepted by the Commissioner if you are a wage or salary earner, a doctor or a lawyer. As per Section BD 3(4) of the ITA 2007 if a payment has been dealt with in your interest or on your behalf it must be recognised as derived income even if you have not personally received it. The company has paid the dividend the dividend advice is your registry dealing with it on your behalf. Arguably even on a cash basis it should be recognised on the dividend payment advice date.

    As for Paper Tiger's example. It's not that clear cut. For example as per Ullrich v C of IR if you receive a cheque but you never present it to the bank you must still declare and pay tax on that cheque as derived income in the tax year the cheque is handed over. With an EFT payment I am unsure as to when the IRD considers the handing over to have happened is it upon sending or upon receipt?

    Anyway if you really want peace of mind you can just check. The IRD aren't too bad to deal with.
    Last edited by lawson; 03-04-2017 at 01:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by waikare View Post
    When the share payment date is the 31/03/2017 but the funds are not deposited in to my bank account (ANZ Securities), in this case will probable be Monday 03/04/2017, which is after this tax year ending 31/03/2017. Are these dividends included in the tax return, ending 31/03/2017 or are they to be included in this years tax period ending 31/03/2018.
    This bean counting hound won't give free tax advice on this forum for a wide range of reasons but I suggest you ask yourself these questions first
    1. Does it really matter which year its included in especially if its fully imputed ?
    2. Will that make a material difference to your income for the year, (materiality is defined as 5% increase or decrease in gross income) ?
    3. Which year is it better for you to include this dividend in ?

    4. Another interesting question is why are we tending to see an increased incidence of bank payments sometimes being delayed by up to two business days ?
    5. Is there a trend developing in N.Z. where banks are hanging onto people's money longer than in previous years to boost their profit ? or is this just my cynical imagination at work ?

    Sorry lot's more questions than answers, if all that's too much I suggest you stick to question 1 only
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

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    Can't say I have noticed the banks holding on to money at all. In fact with transfers between banks being done all day long you tend to get the use of the money earlier and not after midnight as it used to be.

    In this case raised by waikare , he has his dividend paid into his broking account. I would guess we all use the same account number for our deposits when we transfer money to the broker and then they manually credit our personal broking account. This simply takes time,usaually by opening of market the next day, but you are credited with it on the actual day they receive it.

    I am sure waikare will pop up shortly and tell us all is well.
    Last edited by 777; 03-04-2017 at 05:10 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger View Post
    This bean counting hound won't give free tax advice on this forum for a wide range of reasons but I suggest you ask yourself these questions first
    1. Does it really matter which year its included in especially if its fully imputed ?
    2. Will that make a material difference to your income for the year, (materiality is defined as 5% increase or decrease in gross income) ?
    3. Which year is it better for you to include this dividend in ?

    4. Another interesting question is why are we tending to see an increased incidence of bank payments sometimes being delayed by up to two business days ?
    5. Is there a trend developing in N.Z. where banks are hanging onto people's money longer than in previous years to boost their profit ? or is this just my cynical imagination at work ?

    Sorry lot's more questions than answers, if all that's too much I suggest you stick to question 1 only
    First to answer in response to Lawson's query, earlier this morning I checked with the IRD, by email so I guess it may take few days before I get a ruling as I am sure there must be a rule in place for this situation. There are two dividends in one is Telstra which is not really a problem, as it's a DRP and the statement will read payable 31/03/17, (statement not received as yet) and the shares will probably be allocated on that day therefore should be included in the 16/17 year. The other is Steel & Tube which is cash the payment dated as the 31/03/17.

    For me Roger it may matter as the income from STU may place me into the next tax bracket and I will miss out on reasonable tax refund, as I say it MAY MATTER, as I am very close reaching the limit at this point in time, but still have few more figures to come in yet.

    Earlier in the year I transferred some holdings into my wife's name a she is also a Gold Card holder, so I would remain in the lower tax bracket, but appears I should have added a couple more, that would have given me bit of breathing space.

  18. #18
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    Longer than a few days in my experience waikare. I would refer you to question 3 then
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger View Post
    Longer than a few days in my experience waikare. I would refer you to question 3 then

    At this stage probably 2017/18 year, would keep me in my current tax bracket with a refund due.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 777 View Post
    Can't say I have noticed the banks holding on to money at all. In fact with transfers between banks being done all day long you tend to get the use of the money earlier and not after midnight as it used to be.
    Business accounts make payments only during weekdays, which is bloody annoying. Get paid on a Friday after about 10pm from X bank to YOUR bank and you'll likely miss the settlement window until the first settlement on Monday morning. Anything paid to/from during the weekend also settles Monday. There's no technical reason that I can see for it, just greedy banks leveraging our money.

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