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  1. #1481
    Possum in the headlights Beagle's Avatar
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    Not half (here is an example of a direct competitor for the model 3 performance) https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/use...8feddeafdb-002 but you are quite correct about the instant acceleration thing as the model 3 performance 335 kw output in an 1800 kg car is not normally the sort of numbers that go together with a 0-100 km/hr sprint in the mid 3 second rage. That said a lot of it is to do with four wheel drive and for example the 331 Kw Audi RS5 with its 4wd system runs it very close at 3.79 seconds
    https://www.autocar.co.nz/car-review...&ObjectType=35
    I think Tesla has a lot of work ahead of it to match the German's quality control and fit and finish. I've seen quite a few model 3's around lately and at first glance they are very notable for their very poor quality exterior paint. If what's underneath is of the same quality...
    That said I am not a fan of the purple paint on that M3 or the Nardo grey of that RS5. Give me a nice metallic blue anyway over that.
    https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/use...c2db7eff88-002
    Last edited by Beagle; 08-12-2019 at 07:39 PM.
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  2. #1482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond47 View Post
    Tesla Model 3 Performance is ~$105k IIRC, and 0-100 in 3.5secs. Half the price of the gas guzzling BMW.

    Instant acceleration isn't the problem, the throttle response of any EV is going to be better than an ICE which has to deal with the inertia of the air that feeds the motor and all the mechanical damping between the crank and the wheels. Its a simple question of how much acceleration is on tap.. which on a nissan leaf at 80kph is probably not much.. but you'll get all of it in milliseconds :P
    Mustang Super Snake has the same level of performance as that Tesla to 100k but a much higher top speed and is a truly beautiful machine unlike that electric sewing machine.
    Last edited by couta1; 08-12-2019 at 08:18 PM.

  3. #1483
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    Cool, a top speed you can't use, a massive gas bill, and as for beautiful.. they say beauty is in the eye of the beerholder, and it looks like you've had enough old man.

  4. #1484
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    Hah! try selling reliability to the WAF. To be a "distinguished lady" one must drive European. I've tried to sell Japanese among many women and to be honest, they don't rate it. They tell me Japanese make "boring vehicles... no class.. no taste... no elegance.. rah rah". I even bring up the issue of reliability but they are not concerned because its "How good you look in it" and they would rather not be in a Japanese car despite their high reliability. Anotherwords, the moments and high maintenance of the Euro car isn't an issue. I've had 1 friend say it's a privileged to own a BMW because you are saying.. you're in the class that 'has the $' to pay for the high service bill and high repair bills. I'm not sure what kind of status that means but certainly not by what a "reasonable person" would feel. Note, not all women have the same level of 'reasonable person' test.

    By the way, Elon Musk won some court battle with "pedo" guy and the jury used the same example using the again, "Reasonable Person" test.
    I have just returned from a restaurant where a friend of mine showed me his latest purchase. An extremely tidy 2004 BMW SUV. Cost 165k new - but owner could not sell it because quote for new WOF was just under $40,000 - brakes and several other bits. Otherwise it's mechanically fine. My friend who dabbles and dismantles cars bought it for $1000. Reckons he can fix all wof faults for around $5k. That is true.

  5. #1485
    Possum in the headlights Beagle's Avatar
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    Old European vehicle prices are surprising to some, (not to anyone that's owned a Euro for any decent length of time).
    The formula I use (and from what I have observed this holds water / AKA has a lot of credibility) is ostensibly a Euro vehicle will approximately halve, (give or take a little bit), in value every three years.

    i.e, the new $165K BMW will be worth about $82.5K after 3 years, $41.25K after 6 years e.t.c. untill being worth about $5K in 15 years and scrap value if you can get 18 years out of it before the repairs and maintenance costs, (which basically double every 3 years) drive you completely nuts. So a working 15 year old 2004 BMW SUV is probably only worth about $5K and soon to be less when we roll over to 2020 and its 16 years old.

    If you cannot handle this sort of depreciation don't go there and if you're not an extremely skilled mechanic don't go there with buying an old one because the cost per annum to keep them on the road gets truly heinous.

    Back on topic, some may know the Jaguar I Pace won the much coveted supreme world car of the year award for 2019.
    A very deep dive into its attributes is here and if you can make it most of the way through this you'll learn about some cool options like a specially designed Jaguar dog ramp so your arthritic dog can still get up into your I Pace for its outing to the beach. I think its fair to say they've thought of just about everything lol
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRow4fzDHG8
    Last edited by Beagle; 08-12-2019 at 09:50 PM.
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  6. #1486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond47 View Post
    Cool, a top speed you can't use, a massive gas bill, and as for beautiful.. they say beauty is in the eye of the beerholder, and it looks like you've had enough old man.
    Yeah well us old guys were always taught theres no replacement for displacement and you cant have too much horsepower and so 500hp is the starting point in my book. PS-My big block puts out 650hp and that's just enough but anyway I'll leave you guys to discuss your sewing machines.
    Last edited by couta1; 08-12-2019 at 09:53 PM.

  7. #1487
    Possum in the headlights Beagle's Avatar
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    This thread I started is about EV's mate. I think we all know you're never going there....I might at some stage though
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  8. #1488
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    This thread I started is about EV's mate. I think we all know you're never going there....I might at some stage though
    Beagle driving a Tesla, yeah nah it's just not right.

  9. #1489
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    I have just returned from a restaurant where a friend of mine showed me his latest purchase. An extremely tidy 2004 BMW SUV. Cost 165k new - but owner could not sell it because quote for new WOF was just under $40,000 - brakes and several other bits. Otherwise it's mechanically fine. My friend who dabbles and dismantles cars bought it for $1000. Reckons he can fix all wof faults for around $5k. That is true.
    This is exactly that - as my BMW raving fan for many years tells me, "You've got to appreciate the status of owning such vehicles... blah blah.. and understanding to lose so much on depreciation is part of the prestige".

    @ Beagle: As I mentioned before in this thread many pages ago... Build quality is only 1 issue. Just look at the exotic Ferarris and Lamborghinis pre 90s ; their build quality was rubbish yet they seem to appreciate in value. Do people care? Most likely not because people don't buy cars expecting to hold them for over 10+ years. I mean if the panel gaps were not even.. so what? If the door panels were a bit noisy? again so what? The owner is certainly going to have a lot more fun stomping their foot down in a Model 3 Performance to worry about any such small issues. Again, need to draw the line between high-performance vs luxury because if you go out at the race tracks; on a recent visit to Woodford Glen (local dirt racing track in Chch), all those cars out there aren't worried about build quality and neither are the fans..

  10. #1490
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    This is exactly that - as my BMW raving fan for many years tells me, "You've got to appreciate the status of owning such vehicles... blah blah.. and understanding to lose so much on depreciation is part of the prestige".

    @ Beagle: As I mentioned before in this thread many pages ago... Build quality is only 1 issue. Just look at the exotic Ferarris and Lamborghinis pre 90s ; their build quality was rubbish yet they seem to appreciate in value. Do people care? Most likely not because people don't buy cars expecting to hold them for over 10+ years. I mean if the panel gaps were not even.. so what? If the door panels were a bit noisy? again so what? The owner is certainly going to have a lot more fun stomping their foot down in a Model 3 Performance to worry about any such small issues. Again, need to draw the line between high-performance vs luxury because if you go out at the race tracks; on a recent visit to Woodford Glen (local dirt racing track in Chch), all those cars out there aren't worried about build quality and neither are the fans..
    Fungus says, if you don't like rattles; if you hate oil-leaks, if you don't like breakdowns, if you don't like spending perfectly good money on tune-ups and repairs and if you don't like water leaks around windscreen etc, then buy Japanese. If however you need or desire some or all of these things, and are happy with the huge depreciation that goes hand in hand with them - buy a 'luxury - prestigous' European vehicle. But don't overlook the inferior electronics they offer.
    And remember - if you can't afford a new one - you sure as hell can't afford a second hand one.

  11. #1491
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    Quote Originally Posted by couta1 View Post
    Beagle driving a Tesla, yeah nah it's just not right.
    The build quality simply isn't there for Tesla's that would meet my expectations at present.
    BMW M5 would be me at present if I was in the market to buy which I'm not really.
    The forthcoming BMW i4, due about 2021, with 530 horsepower and 600km range could be a very interesting electric car.
    https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1576904
    Last edited by Beagle; 09-12-2019 at 11:40 AM.
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  12. #1492
    FEAR n GREED JBmurc's Avatar
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    Japanese or Korean I've found to date very impressive ... last few years taken my slightly modified well looked(I do my own servicing) after Subaru Legacy 07 3.0 200kw flat 6 from 120,000kms to over 210kms coupe sets of tyres ,new shocks ,one rear bearing and it keeps on impressing me for both handling and fuel use (av. 9lts per 100kms mostly hwy)

    Now at most I'd get 5-6k if I sold it ... but why would I ?? it works brilliant-- paddle change -Si drive (three different engine maps) eyesight cruise control

    Paid $10k ... now compare that to my fathers Merc 2016 SUV AMG ?? $120k new to what wth 80kms on the clock ???? $30k-$40k ?

    Plan is to take the Subaru to over 300kms ..3 more years ... IMHO ... now even if I could afford a new EV in 3-4yrs I do believe the EV will be more along the lines of the Merc value wise as the kms tick upwards
    People don't have ideas, ideas have people

  13. #1493
    Possum in the headlights Beagle's Avatar
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    What's coming, pretty good overview. Prices will be US so you'll need to adjust for the exchange rate, GST and the usual premium local distributors put on here.
    My rule of thumb is double the US quoted price and add GST and that'll give you a general rough indication of possible NZ pricing, (It shouldn't work that way with our Kiwi being worth 65 cents US but it seems too).
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDoI16RmxqQ
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  14. #1494
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    Out of idle curiosity, what would it cost to replace the New Zealand car fleet (about 2 million cars?) with electric vehicles?

    How much electricity would they consume? How many hectares of solar panels is that? How many wind turbines?

    How long would it take to push them through the RMA?

  15. #1495
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTM 3442 View Post
    Out of idle curiosity, what would it cost to replace the New Zealand car fleet (about 2 million cars?) with electric vehicles?

    How much electricity would they consume? How many hectares of solar panels is that? How many wind turbines?

    How long would it take to push them through the RMA?
    It is easier and cheaper than you might think-probably cheaper than the alternative of ICE cars.
    Firstly start doing a bit of research-electricity generation is easily solved-read the PEPANZ paper on natural gas.
    Many owners of electric cars will have roof top solar and bi-directional charge.
    We will always need peaker generation-and natural gas will be the transition fuel as long as the hypocritical elements opposing this are swayed.
    If you do the research you may see why I feel this way

  16. #1496
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTM 3442 View Post
    Out of idle curiosity, what would it cost to replace the New Zealand car fleet (about 2 million cars?) with electric vehicles?
    If we started now probably a bit more than it would cost to replace them with newer ICEs once they wear out as they inevitably do.

    How much electricity would they consume? How many hectares of solar panels is that? How many wind turbines?
    9,000 GWh (~33 Peta-Joules), or thereabouts, assuming peoples travel patterns didn't change. About 22% of total electricity production in NZ at present. Also happens to be about a third of the 100 Peta-Joules of Petrol (not including Diesels) that was sold at retail pumps in 2008.. (I assume we use more now, with more cars on the road, but maybe fuel efficiency gains have been better than I anticipate?)

  17. #1497
    Possum in the headlights Beagle's Avatar
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    https://www.caradvice.com.au/812236/...af-comparison/

    Note, local pricing for these 2 models is $60K and $71K and you will be aware the exchange rate is currently only a ~ 5% difference. Add another 5% for our higher 15% GST here, (10% there) and you'd be forgiven for wondering how ~$A52K for the winner of this contest becomes $NZ71K here, an eye popping 36.5% more when only 10% is explainable through currency and GST factors, WTF ????

    I'll leave you to judge for yourself if you think the Hyundai distributor (who I hear is the Giltrap Group), are ripping Kiwi's off for these cars.
    If you are determined to buy one then I would think you'd want to haggle extremely hard.
    Last edited by Beagle; 22-12-2019 at 06:59 PM.
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  18. #1498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    https://www.caradvice.com.au/812236/...af-comparison/

    Note, local pricing for these 2 models is $60K and $71K and you will be aware the exchange rate is currently only a ~ 5% difference. Add another 5% for our higher 15% GST here, (10% there) and you'd be forgiven for wondering how ~$A52K for the winner of this contest becomes $NZ71K here, an eye popping 36.5% more when only 10% is explainable through currency and GST factors, WTF ????

    I'll leave you to judge for yourself if you think the Hyundai distributor (who I hear is the Giltrap Group), are ripping Kiwi's off for these cars.
    If you are determined to buy one then I would think you'd want to haggle extremely hard.
    Clearly you are correct and we are being ripped off.
    I cannot say the same for my japanese import.It is the same model as the latest and best leaf that can be obtained here.Cost $43k and no petrol costs since.
    It is pure joy to drive with the e-pedal and a window or more down.
    I tested the performance on a sunday evening coming back from kerikeri then kaikohe and then south.A previous 90 minute drive was reduced to 75 minutes It took a bit of the range but still had 95k left-and with the e-pedal never had to brake.
    After the first reassuring drive I no longer have range anxiety

  19. #1499
    Possum in the headlights Beagle's Avatar
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    That's good buying I reckon as you are bypassing greedy distributors who add exorbitant mark-up's onto these cars just because they can and they know that some Kiwi's want the latest technology and / or want to make a difference for the environment.

    Latest model Leaf for low $40's makes sense to me. Paying Hyundai over $71K so the local distributor and Hyundai dealer can scalp you for exorbitant margins is really dumb. Fair retail price for that car would be $57K by my calculations. The extra $14K is naked greed.

    To add insult to injury Hyundai buyers in Australia get a 7 year warranty https://www.hyundai.com/au/en and Kiwi buyers get a 3 year warranty.
    When I asked Hyundai about this they replied, we give a 3 year warranty to keep the cost down Clearly they need some new public relations staff.
    Last edited by Beagle; 23-12-2019 at 08:16 AM.
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  20. #1500
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    That's good buying I reckon as you are bypassing greedy distributors who add exorbitant mark-up's onto these cars just because they can and they know that some Kiwi's want the latest technology and / or want to make a difference for the environment.

    Latest model Leaf for low $40's makes sense to me. Paying Hyundai over $71K so the local distributor and Hyundai dealer can scalp you for exorbitant margins is really dumb. Fair retail price for that car would be $57K by my calculations. The extra $14K is naked greed.

    To add insult to injury Hyundai buyers in Australia get a 7 year warranty https://www.hyundai.com/au/en and Kiwi buyers get a 3 year warranty.
    When I asked Hyundai about this they replied, we give a 3 year warranty to keep the cost down Clearly they need some new public relations staff.
    I negotiated a small discount and 2 year warranty on my leaf.
    They even had a 60k model for $62k( not imported by Nissan NZ) which I am glad I didnt buy as this 40 k model does all I want atm !
    Last edited by fish; 23-12-2019 at 09:01 AM.

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