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  1. #1141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    You certainly are enthusiastic about Tesla. I had a look at a Tesla S at an electric car show at Greenlane last year and was underwhelmed with the build quality.
    Get ready for an EV onslaught from the VW group. Badly burned by the diesel-gate fiasco they have invested $US90 Billion in EV facilities and R&D recently and I think we will see some very interesting EV's from the VW group in the next 5 years. Yes Tesla have the lead but their business s model is about to come under attack from a wide range of competitors and I for one think you'd be a "brave" investor to own Tesla shares going forward from here.
    Who cares about build quality? After all, put an explanation of Tesla's Model 3 waiting period.... people waiting over a year regardless of the poor build quality noise. Here's the real issue, VW and other makes for many years have been saying they're getting into the EV market. Month after month.. nothing. Hyundai's Kona made claims to have their EV to market late 2018. Now they're still only making few examples with no sight of when the RHD version will be made. What is apparent is every car make has done the talk, but has not done the walk. By the time the onslaught comes, Tesla would of already taken the market share (where it would take another 5 years or so when 1st EV owners look to buy again).

    The "Summon's" command (in testing) is suppose to do exactly that. The car will drive from the parking lot and to you where you are.

    I'll reiterate, there will be no EV onslaught. ICE version of the same model car is nearly half price of the EV variant (ie Mitsubishi Highlander ICE vs PHEV). How does Volvo or VW come out with an EV price near Tesla's Model 3 car? Options? Sure their build quality may be far better... but it's not always the case customers want. Early 50s and 60s Corvettes were notoriously bad in build quality to the point that originality fetches more than a fully restored one where all the bugs of poor build qualities would be ironed out through the restoration. Something most enthusiasts would prefer to have it left how it came out off the assembly line.

  2. #1142
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    Who cares about build quality? After all, put an explanation of Tesla's Model 3 waiting period.... people waiting over a year regardless of the poor build quality noise. Here's the real issue, VW and other makes for many years have been saying they're getting into the EV market. Month after month.. nothing. Hyundai's Kona made claims to have their EV to market late 2018. Now they're still only making few examples with no sight of when the RHD version will be made. What is apparent is every car make has done the talk, but has not done the walk. By the time the onslaught comes, Tesla would of already taken the market share (where it would take another 5 years or so when 1st EV owners look to buy again).

    The "Summon's" command (in testing) is suppose to do exactly that. The car will drive from the parking lot and to you where you are.

    I'll reiterate, there will be no EV onslaught. ICE version of the same model car is nearly half price of the EV variant (ie Mitsubishi Highlander ICE vs PHEV). How does Volvo or VW come out with an EV price near Tesla's Model 3 car? Options? Sure their build quality may be far better... but it's not always the case customers want. Early 50s and 60s Corvettes were notoriously bad in build quality to the point that originality fetches more than a fully restored one where all the bugs of poor build qualities would be ironed out through the restoration. Something most enthusiasts would prefer to have it left how it came out off the assembly line.
    You might want to check your facts mate,Hyundai Kona did come out in late 2018 in RHD and has a range significantly in excess of the Tesla Model 3
    Here's a few examples from Trade Me https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/use...60f7deeacf4ed4
    https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/use...e8aa152b7891d7
    As you can see they're RHD and many on trade me were first registered in 2018.

    Build quality, I owned an American made Chrysler for 5 years. Just as well it came with a brilliant 900 watt 19 speaker Harmon Kardon sound system so you could turn it up and drown out all the rattles squeaks and so on. Tesla made in America seems to have a similar build quality to the Chrysler based on my own observations.
    Made in America is not usually synonymous with good build quality.

    Golf EV looks like a very well built bit of kit. Readily available right now for around $60K after a haggle. Only a matter of a small amount of time before they are fitted with a much bigger battery.

    Hyundai INIOQ's are now down to the mid $40K's on Trade me second hand and come with the balance of Hyundai's 10 year battery warranty.

    The EV onslaught has already begun and will pick up pace significantly over the next 5 years. Audi have their new E-tron arriving this year and the Jaguar I Pace will be available next month.
    BMW has an all electric X3 with nearly 500 km's range and BMW build quality arriving early 2020.

    Tesla are going to face a very wide range of competition from highly credible sources and people do generally care about build quality.
    Last edited by Beagle; 12-03-2019 at 09:11 AM.
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  3. #1143
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    @ Beagle:

    You've failed to address why the EV price of the same car is insanely higher than the ICE model (by an order of over double the price)? A $74K price tag for the Hyundai Kona vs $32K for ICE version:

    https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/use...967333a2e7a6a8

    What features does a $74K EV give you that would be more than a Tesla Model 3 ? The comparison i'm making is based on features that do more than just being electric. Because $35,000 is a lot of $ that could be spent on fuel for an ICE car without the distance anxiety per charge of an EV.

    If you look in the high performance EV category, what is there? How are they priced compared to Tesla's "Ludicrous" performance option? A Model 3 Ludicrous 3.5s 0-60mph ? If the build quality was that bad, then explain why the huge waiting list for the Model 3 ?

  4. #1144
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    My opinion on the merits of EV's at the present time with their current price points has already been clearly articulated. I'm not here to indulge your desire to talk endlessly about Tesla. I refuted a number of your statements above and have shown them to be completely wrong. Model 3 will sell okay provided Tesla stay in business long enough to make them. The onslaught is coming and we will reach a point sometime in the next decade or so where EV's offer a cost competitive alterative to ICE engines. We're not there yet. Statements like "Who cares about build quality" frankly make me wonder whether its worth debating anything else with you.
    Last edited by Beagle; 12-03-2019 at 12:38 PM.
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  5. #1145
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    Kicking things off again in a more open ended way.
    "As far as costs go, the EV fleet costs Meridian the same in capital as its previous petrol and diesel fuel fleet but, as well as being much better for the environment, it has lower running costs and higher residual values."
    Electric cars sparking in NZ Meridian Energy's shift to electric vehicles will be showcased at a global EV summit.

  6. #1146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    Kicking things off again in a more open ended way.
    "As far as costs go, the EV fleet costs Meridian the same in capital as its previous petrol and diesel fuel fleet but, as well as being much better for the environment, it has lower running costs and higher residual values."
    Electric cars sparking in NZ Meridian Energy's shift to electric vehicles will be showcased at a global EV summit.
    Hmmm, an Electricity Retailer spruiking Electric Cars. Can somebody hand me a large pinch of salt please.

  7. #1147
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    Sure .Heres a quart of tiger balm

  8. #1148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    Sure .Heres a quart of tiger balm
    ????? If that was supposed to be relevant, I missed it.

  9. #1149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond47 View Post
    Hmmm, an Electricity Retailer spruiking Electric Cars. Can somebody hand me a large pinch of salt please.
    "As far as costs go, the EV fleet costs Meridian the same in capital as its previous petrol and diesel fuel fleet"
    Agree with you 100% that this looks like creative corporate B.S. for their own gain. It is absolutely not possible to buy the same sized vehicle with the same functionality in terms of vehicle fit for the same purpose as an EV for the same cost as an ICE alternative even if one overlooks range concerns. This is a fact clearly on display in the N.Z. market. For example identical versions of the Hyundai Kona which look exactly the same and have exactly the same functionality as a small SUV are more than double the price if one goes EV. Meridian are obviously taking a disingenuous and highly creative approach to fudging the figures by replacing ICE vehicles with smaller EV vehicles with less capability to try and create the right optics to suit their own ends.
    Last edited by Beagle; 25-03-2019 at 06:05 PM.
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  10. #1150
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    As a Board member of Drive Electric, we’re committed to using EVs in our own business too, as well as reducing the number of vehicles we own through a smarter use of our fleet. Our passenger car fleet is currently 50% fully electric vehicles (a combination of Hyundai IONIQs and Nissan Leafs), and we’ve committed to increasing this to 90% by 2020."

    I have no idea what they are replacing their ICE fleet with so at this point up your nose with a rubber hose
    , great that its good for their business too. win /win.And us as shareholders Can only admire what they are doing environmentally leading from the front

  11. #1151
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    You love em so where's your one JT ?, or are you still all "torque" and no action
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  12. #1152
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    So you have no idea on their fleet costs?

  13. #1153
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    See post 1149. Big companies can buy fleets of small ICE cars like a Mitsubishi Mirage or Toyota Yaris for circa $15K a pop after massive fleet discount.
    There is no new EV on the N.Z. market at a price point even remotely close. Cheapest brand new ICE car is likely to be the Hyundai Inioq and they're over $50K retail or even with fleet discount they're going to be paying well north of double an small ICE car.

    MEL are simply fudging this for their own commercial purposes and corporate optics.

    I can almost see the memo in my mind. Managing Director to CEO "We can't be seen to be driving a fleet of ICE cars as a power generator" The optics on this are terrible and we have an image we must portray regardless of cost. Find some bean counter to fudge the figures and make this look good. Don't worry about factoring in road user charges yet as they haven't been legislated and we'll just hope that comes out in the wash and besides no one will see the internal calculations so who cares if all the batteries fail after 9 years and we're out of pocket. We'll worry about that later if we're still here then"
    Last edited by Beagle; 27-03-2019 at 10:30 AM.
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  14. #1154
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    Got an EV that you're planning to put inside your garage ? Make sure not only it is insured but also your house and contents are too and your smoke alarms are all fully operational https://www.autoblog.com/2019/03/25/...usaolp00000618
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  15. #1155
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    Another perspective with a lot of detail.

    https://cleantechnica.com/2019/02/25...auto-industry/

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