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  1. #1701
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    That is fine by me. If EV's were adopted from a compelling market perspective, great. If not, let them die a natural death. Government intervention is not required and leads to negative externalities.
    Shame, because it's not something that markets can do, unless backed by the power of the state.

  2. #1702
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTM 3442 View Post
    Shame, because it's not something that markets can do, unless backed by the power of the state.
    Why is that a shame? If EV's were so good, the market would do exactly that. Why do we need the power of the state? Why compel the power of the state to provide the people with inferior products at inflated prices?

  3. #1703
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    Why is that a shame? If EV's were so good, the market would do exactly that. Why do we need the power of the state? Why compel the power of the state to provide the people with inferior products at inflated prices?
    For me its largely about global warming,health and the effect of vehicle emissions .
    My decision to move to an EV when affordable was made on a flight that passed over the white cliffs of Dover,clean air in the south of England but over the midlands the fumes from the motorways spewed into the air reducing visibility.
    Air pollution mainly from vehicles has profound adverse health effects in cities.
    Many people are selfish,poor,ignorant etc and there are many powers of the state that can be used to motivate them to change to EV.
    I certainly do not regard my EV as an inferior product.

  4. #1704
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    Quote Originally Posted by fish View Post
    For me its largely about global warming,health and the effect of vehicle emissions .
    My decision to move to an EV when affordable was made on a flight that passed over the white cliffs of Dover,clean air in the south of England but over the midlands the fumes from the motorways spewed into the air reducing visibility.
    Air pollution mainly from vehicles has profound adverse health effects in cities.
    Many people are selfish,poor,ignorant etc and there are many powers of the state that can be used to motivate them to change to EV.
    I certainly do not regard my EV as an inferior product.
    Good on you mate. I must admit that the air quality in Auckland during the first lockdown when vehicle use was vastly reduced was incredible. Looking out over the harbor from our deck I haven't seen the air that clean for several decades.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  5. #1705
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    I am puzzled that EV prices have not dropped more. One of the cheapest is the MG ZS EV, it is about $50k for a 44kw battery. The battery pack itself should be about $12K of that, yet the EV is about $25k more than the ICE equivalent. It is not like the ICE engine, radiator etc is free.
    The electric cars out of Korea are even worse with their EV premiums. Demand for their EVs is high, with long waiting lists. Perhaps they are constrained by battery supply or perhaps just maximising profit by charging a premium while they can.
    Depreciation rates have probably been distorted by the importing many Leafs near the end of their lives. It will be interesting to see if the more modern EVs, with better heat management in their battery packs than the Leaf, depreciate as quickly. In a few years we will be able to tell if the Korean EVs depreciate less than their ICE equivalents.
    It is quite possible that next year Shanghai built Tesla model 3s will be in NZ. My guess is that late 2021 the base Tesla model will be will start at about $65,000, helping drag down the price of the competition.

  6. #1706
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    Worse, as mentioned above in the last 3 years I have noted the price premium between ICE and EV of the Korean EV's has actually increased ! One of the reasons for this is that the distribution of Hyundai products in N.Z. is handled by the Giltrap group who are notorious for their hefty margins and bloated management structure.
    People wanting to look cool or be seen to make a difference or to be early adopters appear to be easy targets for greedy manufacturers / distributors / retailers.
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  7. #1707
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    Another review of the BMW X5 45e. 40miles real world range (70 km's) is going to be plenty for most people's daily use and then on longer trips there's no range anxiety and you can tow 2.7 tons which is a pretty decent boat or caravan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EITjgIYqmrs Quality and driving experience look top class too for a big SUV.

    Pretty versatile bit of kit.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  8. #1708
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    Quote Originally Posted by fish View Post
    For me its largely about global warming,health and the effect of vehicle emissions .
    My decision to move to an EV when affordable was made on a flight that passed over the white cliffs of Dover,clean air in the south of England but over the midlands the fumes from the motorways spewed into the air reducing visibility.
    Air pollution mainly from vehicles has profound adverse health effects in cities.
    Many people are selfish,poor,ignorant etc and there are many powers of the state that can be used to motivate them to change to EV.
    I certainly do not regard my EV as an inferior product.
    Hi fish, I do agree with EV's in that they help take the emissions out of the cities and into the countryside (where the electricity is generated) and that is a positive thing for the many people living in urban areas. But that is about the only redeeming feature I can find at this stage.

  9. #1709
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    Hi fish, I do agree with EV's in that they help take the emissions out of the cities and into the countryside (where the electricity is generated) and that is a positive thing for the many people living in urban areas. But that is about the only redeeming feature I can find at this stage.
    Hi Blackcap

    There are a lot more redeeming features to find when you start searching not least the joy of the acceleration and driving with the windows down and just using one pedal .

    They are reducing emissions rather than moving them .

    They are reducing oil imports by their efficiency and the fact that many owners such as myself are installing solar panels to charge them in a totally carbon free process

  10. #1710
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    Why is that a shame? If EV's were so good, the market would do exactly that. Why do we need the power of the state? Why compel the power of the state to provide the people with inferior products at inflated prices?

    Left to it’s own devices, “the market” is more than able, and demonstrably willing “. . . to provide the people with inferior products at inflated prices.”

    Markets are great for some things, but not for others. As Adam Smith pointed out all those years ago - when left to its own devices, the famous “invisible hand” has an inbuilt predilection to the arthritis of monopoly and manipulation.

    Left to their own devices, markets have proved poor at things like removing the poison of tetraethyl lead from petrol, at removing CFCs from HVAC and refrigeration units, at removing asbestos from building materials, introducing smokeless fuel to prevent the Great Fog of London, installing safety devices in cars, trucks, and tractors. . . . the list goes on.

  11. #1711
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    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla...203948566.html

    I guess battery technology is going to evolve quite a bit over next 5-10 years.

  12. #1712
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    Interesting see Porsche sales in Europe this August. My understanding is that they are still ramping up Taycan production, so that may be restricting sales.
    Porsche new registrations in August 2020:

    Taycan: 1,183 (new)
    911: 1,097 (down 37%)
    Cayenne: 711 (0%)
    Macan: 646 (down 62%)
    Cayenne Coupe: 554 (up 29%)
    718: 517 (down 5%)
    Panamera: 278 (down 71%)
    total: 4,986

  13. #1713
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    Default Tesla Plaid makes some bold claims including 840 km driving range !!

    https://www.caradvice.com.au/886210/...ess-than-250k/

    No question it looks quick !! N.Z. pricing $257,900.

    Claims on the NZ website include
    Quickest 0-100 km/h and quarter mile acceleration of any production car ever
    Acceleration from 0-100 km/h: <2.1 s
    Quarter mile: <9.0 s
    Tri-Motor All Wheel Drive
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

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