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  1. #1201
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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  2. #1202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond47 View Post
    Well, gee, i'm sorry Tesla NZ can't source new stock with new motors considering the change was only announced a few days ago, and isn't yet into production. I guess they should totally ignore physical reality, supply chains, and magically upgrade their existing stock to something that isn't even in production yet.

    Electric cars must really scare the bejesus out of you for you to go to so much trouble trying to shoot them down. Or is it just change in general that scares you witless?


    I've been trying to point out the obvious about Tesla all around, but it seems the world has too many anti-Tesla.. enough to call me a 'fanboy of Tesla'. From my basic reasoning, when I compare all other EVs, it tells me a clear picture that they're simply glorified golf carts, certainly by their price points.

    So how far away are other EVs in the realm of autonomous driving? The Jaguar i-Pace seems to be a joke but not sure what they're comparing such EV cars to?

    The reality is simple. When you're paying $100K USD for an EV, I don't care what badge it has (Volvo, BMW, Audi, Jaguar, etc), it should AT LEAST have similar features as the Tesla Model S or X. How wrong am I? It's not like the Apple iPhones that were inferior at the start but people still bought them.

  3. #1203
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post


    I've been trying to point out the obvious about Tesla all around, but it seems the world has too many anti-Tesla.. enough to call me a 'fanboy of Tesla'. From my basic reasoning, when I compare all other EVs, it tells me a clear picture that they're simply glorified golf carts, certainly by their price points.

    So how far away are other EVs in the realm of autonomous driving? The Jaguar i-Pace seems to be a joke but not sure what they're comparing such EV cars to?

    The reality is simple. When you're paying $100K USD for an EV, I don't care what badge it has (Volvo, BMW, Audi, Jaguar, etc), it should AT LEAST have similar features as the Tesla Model S or X. How wrong am I? It's not like the Apple iPhones that were inferior at the start but people still bought them.
    I think you’re right. Big difference putting an E in a otherwise standard car, compared with Tesla who are reinventing driving, as well as being E.

  4. #1204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    I think you’re right. Big difference putting an E in a otherwise standard car, compared with Tesla who are reinventing driving, as well as being E.
    I just read Musk saying Tesla cars having the ability to diagnose a faulty part in the car and able to send an order to replace the part (thus eliminating the complex diagnosing problems in ICE cars). It's this kind of technology you get when an EV is built from the ground up. By conventional means, if you buy from the other car makes, you still have the hassles of dealing with the local car dealer (and as many have experienced, not all car dealerships are the same). I've had my wife's Toyota go in for routine servicing and they've put back the wrong lug nuts on the tire. Ok different issue but realistically speaking, the competitors still have not address other problems with their brand such as 'tarnished image'?

  5. #1205
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    Hmm. Am I picking up the whiff of subsidsed EV's from James Shaw? What better way of helping NZ'ers Wellbeing than giving them a cheaper option for spotlighting their virtuousness. Will be interesting to see if there is something in the Budget.

  6. #1206
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    This is what happens to the range of a Tesla X when you actually use it for something it was supposed to be designed to do...like towing.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcfb5Hak78Q
    Last edited by Beagle; 09-05-2019 at 11:19 AM.
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  7. #1207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    This is what happens to the range of a Tesla X when you actually use it for something it was supposed to be designed to do...like towing.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcfb5Hak78Q
    So for an extra $31,000 we can have a Tesla which still can only tow for around 220 km and thne needs a 1 hour 20 minute recharge. Its going to take me a hell of a long time to get to queenstown!. Might just use that $31k on flights and hotels.

  8. #1208
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Hmm. Am I picking up the whiff of subsidsed EV's from James Shaw? What better way of helping NZ'ers Wellbeing than giving them a cheaper option for spotlighting their virtuousness. Will be interesting to see if there is something in the Budget.
    Maybe, but don't see why every tax payer should subsidise me, you, or anyone who wants to buy an EV, in fact there should be a Road user charge on them as they don't pay at he pump

  9. #1209
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    So for an extra $31,000 we can have a Tesla which still can only tow for around 220 km and thne needs a 1 hour 20 minute recharge. Its going to take me a hell of a long time to get to queenstown!. Might just use that $31k on flights and hotels.
    How many recharges required for my holiday trip towing a caravan from Auckland to Queenstown and back
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  10. #1210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    How many recharges required for my holiday trip towing a caravan from Auckland to Queenstown and back
    Have you guys thought about the key reason for owning an EV? I'm certain the vast majority of owners use an EV for short commutes such as to work and back home. If over 90% of the population lives in this lifestyle of driving into town and back, then from my basic understanding, that's a GREAT idea.

    The high price of luxury EV isn't the problem. There's no shortage of +$150K NZD luxury cars sold in NZ from every major European brand that is simply in ICE form. They all depreciate a lot and any person can see that amount of depreciation could buy a lot of air flights within NZ or rental hires of caravans throughout the many years.

    Without a doubt, RUC on EV will definitely come. It's just that it will take several years before EVs become a viable option for buyers over the ICE variant so the gov't see's no point in addressing RUC for EV. Perhaps it may never be the case that EV would be an option for the average home owner, and this is why gov'ts all over the world provide a credit towards buying these EVs. I've been critical before why Jacinda Ardern had quickly imposed a carbon tax on the importation of fossil fuel when all that does is penalise users that need petro / fuel for day to day living ; WHILE OFFERING NO incentive to make the everyday person to switch over to EV ; or rather, reducing their carbon footprint?

  11. #1211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    How many recharges required for my holiday trip towing a caravan from Auckland to Queenstown and back
    You better save that until you are retired. You'll need the time

  12. #1212
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    Have you guys thought about the key reason for owning an EV? I'm certain the vast majority of owners use an EV for short commutes such as to work and back home. If over 90% of the population lives in this lifestyle of driving into town and back, then from my basic understanding, that's a GREAT idea.
    Yes I have. But you need to calculate Total Cost of Ownership difference between ICE and EV.

  13. #1213
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    You better save that until you are retired. You'll need the time
    You're quite right
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  14. #1214
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    Ev's are big with the upper middle class /wealth set living within, inner city, European main cities...further out you go the less you see, more a move to smaller cars and some hybrids at best.

    When I work in Amsterdam and Berlin, each charge point is being used constantly, usually placed outside the inner city mansions with resident cars left on all evening and night charging. Its a small bubble....the only thing extending it is a corporate fleet deals to appear green.

  15. #1215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
    Ev's are big with the upper middle class /wealth set living within, inner city, European main cities...further out you go the less you see, more a move to smaller cars and some hybrids at best.

    When I work in Amsterdam and Berlin, each charge point is being used constantly, usually placed outside the inner city mansions with resident cars left on all evening and night charging. Its a small bubble....the only thing extending it is a corporate fleet deals to appear green.
    I see that the uptake on EV's in NZ is stagnant. It is in decline since May 2018. So the buzz is over and it looks like the govt will have to do "subsidies" to get people to purchase them.

    https://www.transport.govt.nz/mot-re...registrations/

  16. #1216
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    I see that the uptake on EV's in NZ is stagnant. It is in decline since May 2018. So the buzz is over and it looks like the govt will have to do "subsidies" to get people to purchase them.

    https://www.transport.govt.nz/mot-re...registrations/
    Interesting to see the facts, (not the hype perpetrated on here by some). Z Energy noted in their recent full year results that uptake is tracking right at the lowest level of their future modelling assumptions and that significant declines in the cost per kw/hr of battery production have not been reflected in N.Z. retail vehicle showrooms.
    Unsurprisingly many customers appear to be happy to bide their time waiting on the sidelines for more realistic pricing and more practical range.

    Apparently many people have realized that we may be many years away from EV's being an affordable and realistic option for the average family and Toyota are doing quite well with their long established and further refined hybrid technology. The latest RAV 4 hybrid is sure to find favour with many families with its excellent fuel economy and practical layout along with a raft of up to the minute safety and technology features. https://www.driven.co.nz/reviews/roa...-and-off-road/ Mid spec hybrid model can be had for $38,995 which seems like a ton or practicality and versatility and just 4.8 L 100 km's it seems like a pretty good package. https://www.toyota.co.nz/new-car/rav...AX-NM1-1D6-20#...better not tell Mrs Beagle as I think she'd be keen.
    Last edited by Beagle; 11-05-2019 at 01:46 PM.
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  17. #1217
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    I see that the uptake on EV's in NZ is stagnant. It is in decline since May 2018. So the buzz is over and it looks like the govt will have to do "subsidies" to get people to purchase them.

    https://www.transport.govt.nz/mot-re...registrations/
    Id say that most of those that are willing to live within the limitations of a Leaf now have one, and the rest are waiting for something better and affordable.

    But not sure how you came to its in decline.. there have been more light EVs registered in the first 4 months of this year than the first four of last year, May 2018 was a bit of a spike, but that was surpassed by another spike in October 2018. Wouldn't call that a decline personally.

  18. #1218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond47 View Post
    Id say that most of those that are willing to live within the limitations of a Leaf now have one, and the rest are waiting for something better and affordable.

    But not sure how you came to its in decline.. there have been more light EVs registered in the first 4 months of this year than the first four of last year, May 2018 was a bit of a spike, but that was surpassed by another spike in October 2018. Wouldn't call that a decline personally.
    I just put a trend line from May 2018 to now. It is definitely going down. But that is not the point. There should be growth, even slowing growth, and that is not happening.

  19. #1219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    ...Unsurprisingly many customers appear to be happy to bide their time waiting on the sidelines for more realistic pricing and more practical range.

    Apparently many people have realized that we may be many years away from EV's being an affordable and realistic option for the average family and Toyota are doing quite well with their long established and further refined hybrid technology. The latest RAV 4 hybrid is sure to find favour with many families with its excellent fuel economy and practical layout along with a raft of up to the minute safety and technology features. https://www.driven.co.nz/reviews/roa...-and-off-road/ Mid spec hybrid model can be had for $38,995 which seems like a ton or practicality and versatility and just 4.8 L 100 km's it seems like a pretty good package. https://www.toyota.co.nz/new-car/rav...AX-NM1-1D6-20#...better not tell Mrs Beagle as I think she'd be keen.
    That's exactly the problem! The only affordable EV choice for the masses is.. a 2nd hand Nissan Leaf. Anything else fully EV brand new? not a chance even for the next 10 years. This was Tesla's early approach by introducing high performance EVs to target the high income earners. They never intended their cars to be affordable to the masses ; even the Model 3 by NZ standards is not affordable. For pretty much most people, a new ICE (even hybrid) at a price that is 1/3rd or half the price of an equivalent EV, easily fits the bill.

    I really wonder if an EV credit would help increase the EV uptake in NZ?

  20. #1220
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    Don't understand why the RAV4 has not got Apple Car play or the Google version. A bit behind the times
    Think hybrids will be the much bigger uptake than a full EV for the foreseeable future

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