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  1. #1411
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    [QUOTE=Beagle;

    Just admit it JT, the only reason you catch a bus is because its free with your Gold card

    [/QUOTE]

    Went to optometrist, who dilated my pupils, cant drive afterward for a while so my hand was forced. A lifetime habit (jumping in the car to go anywhere) is hard to break even when you believe its necessary and want to do your part. Herein lies one of the challenges, changing those habits.

  2. #1412
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    Just returned from San Francisco and LA (Anaheim mostly). Not may electric cars that I noticed apart from Tesla's and BMW I3's in the main.
    What did surprise me a bit (from only around these two cities and the freeways - most common cars were Toyota, Honda and Nissan - quite a few hybrid Camry's and Honda Accords (the latter not available here yet??)
    The general "family" car was mostly Japanese with the all forms of "Trucks" being dominated by an American brands

    As Beagle says, may also consider a Nissan Leaf when the 2nd car needs replacing. (mainly to drive from the train station and back for work and only very local running around) give those prices

  3. #1413
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    Ton of stuff on electric cars in here. Mega users sharing their experiences. https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.as...715&page_no=51
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  4. #1414
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    From what I can see it would appear the first generation Leaf in 2011 has a realistic resale (wholesale not retail), value now of about $6,000 with most around ~ 60% remaining battery capacity.

    On a 3 year exercise buying a 5 year old one now at $13,000, (assuming you can find one in reasonable nick at that price), plus allowing another ~ $1,000 for on road costs and a NZ compliant charger = $14,000 up front cost and $6,000 back in 3 years = $8,000 expected depreciation in 3 years = $2,667 per year. Add say a cost of capital of 8% on $14,000 = another $1,120 per annum.

    Add annual registration and you're basically at $4,000 per annum to own, excluding insurance, recharging costs and at some stage, quite probably December 2021, road user charges.

    Run this analysis on a 2 year old previous generation Leaf at $20,000 and hope to get ~ $13,000 back in 3 years time and taking into account increased cost of capital the annual cost numbers are similar.

    I remain of the view that the residual value of a 10 year old Leaf is going to be very close to zero as the battery (which is only air cooled) for all intents and purposes is basically used up at that point.
    Having experienced the pain of a nine year old hybrid battery failing, (Nickel metal hydride which are supposed to have superior durability to Lithium - ion) on reflection I am not interested in pushing the envelope on what is possible with leaf battery durability.

    I think it would cost us, (all up including recharging cost and insurance) about an extra $2, 000 - $3,000 per annum to have a used Leaf in the driveway as a third car. Sure that would reduce mileage and maintenance on the existing two cars and very slightly enhance their residual value with lower mileage but I think it is very unlikely this eventual residual value benefit would amount to anywhere near an annual benefit of the extra cost of the used Leaf.

    So that begs the question of why bother ? Make a difference for the environment ? Nah, rather plant some more trees. More fun driving an old Leaf compared to my current 2019 Holden Calais V ?
    Well I think the answer to that question is pretty obvious lol

    Conclusion, unless one is going "all in" on the electric thing the economics of having one as a third car don't make sense even with the current exemption from road user charges remains which unless we're advised otherwise by the Govt, this exemption expires in December 2021 which isn't that far away. Thereafter EV users will be up for ~ $700 road user charges per 10,000 km's travelled.

    Planting some trees which confer an environmental benefit for many decades into the future looks like a far more practical and cost efficient thing to do if one is interested in making an enduring difference to the environment.
    Last edited by Beagle; 15-10-2019 at 11:35 AM.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  5. #1415
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    @ Beagle:

    Agree going EV as a 3rd / standby car does not make sense. But I don't think you're comparing apples with apples as any person looking to buy an EV (new or used) would of done their homework and realised the benefits are to there. For most part, i'm speaking those who replace their ICE with an EV vs buying another car which is an EV. Most working families have their partner commuting in & out of town daily and this is where EVs makes sense. I know you think range anxiety is an issue but if one is so concerned, then just go buy a Tesla which offers proper distance on a full charge (it's also a laugh that the new Porsche Taycan is over 100 miles less on a charge than the Tesla Model S).

    On the issue of RUC, I just paid nearly $4,000 for 50,000kms in our Fiat Ducato RV which would last us 3 - 4 years. If you want to talk about depreciation vs use, RVs are worse than any other vehicle when compared to the amount of use ; because over 90% of the time they sit unused in a parking spot. Fortunately we use the Fiat for business use exclusively so the depreciation is written off.

    You've missed a very important factor which is the maintenance cost of owning an ICE vehicle. If it's an European make, I know friends that take their 2nd hand Euro-brand car to the local dealer and year after year, they seem to find something wrong that needs to get fix for which ; roughly $2,000 / year pending on make (Audi, BMW, MB, etc). If you ask Tesla owners on the EV maintenance cost, it's virtually nothing but replacing tires and wiper blades. No oil changes to worry about, no having to queue in line at the petro stations, there's a lot going for in terms of EV ownership that should be put into $ terms as 'time and convenience is $'.

    If NZ wants to make EV a real success, just do what they do in Sweden and apply a tax rate that makes all imported ICE cars to be equal to the comparable EV. Such as the Hyundai Kona for which the petro model is like $30K vs the EV Kona at about $75K NZD.

  6. #1416
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    We're not Sweeden and the answer is not massive additional taxes, (we're already heavily overtaxed as it is).
    Costs will come down over time and in the meantime those looking to make a difference can buy a fuel efficient ICE or hybrid vehicle like a Toyota hybrid for a very modest premium to a regular vehicle and / or plant some trees.

    The Govt could help by clarifying when the RUC exemption for EV's will expire.

    I think the size of the subsidy scheme already announced which will reduce the price of EV's by as much as $8,000 and increase fuel guzzlers as much as $3,000 is a good balance between encouraging EV uptake and not unduly penalising the rights of people to make purchases of whatever vehicle they like. This is one decision Julie Anne-Genter appears to have got right in my opinion.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

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