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  1. #1096
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    Nobody's going to accept nuclear energy in N.Z.
    Perhaps we we should get alongside the rest of the world, liek UK, USA, Japan, Canada, France, Germany, Finland, Sweden - and watch those Russians.

  2. #1097
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    I think we're 80% renewable mate and quite a number of wind farms have already been consented under the RMA and the gentailiers are just waiting for the demand to build before building them.

    Anyway it seems that not unlike human's, car batteries like the temperature to be not too cold and not too hot otherwise performance diminishes quite a bit
    https://www.driven.co.nz/news/news/c...car-batteries/

  3. #1098
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  4. #1099
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    How come Jacinda Ardern isn't giving NZ people an incentive to go EV in a form of a credit? Other OECD nations have a credit incentive to buy EVs but in NZ, we've seen petro fuel prices go up because of higher import taxes (carbon tax?). So if the gov't charges a tax for carbon emissions, what is the gov't doing with that tax revenue???

  5. #1100
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    https://www.driven.co.nz/news/news/t...m-its-website/
    Even at $US35,000 it would have bene close to $70,000 Kiwi with the exchange rate, freight and GST so it looks like anyone waiting for a so called "affordable" Tesla better not hold their breath.

  6. #1101
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    How come Jacinda Ardern isn't giving NZ people an incentive to go EV in a form of a credit? Other OECD nations have a credit incentive to buy EVs but in NZ, we've seen petro fuel prices go up because of higher import taxes (carbon tax?). So if the gov't charges a tax for carbon emissions, what is the gov't doing with that tax revenue???
    Why the heck would you want to waste tax payers dollars doing that? I would be royally annoyed as a tax payer if others got incentives to go and virtue signal their "greeness". Effectively taking from the poor and giving to middle class and higher luuvies.

  7. #1102
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    Interestingly 2018 Nissan Leaf's (the new 40 kw/hr model) are starting to come down to about $45K now. Possibly one of the better bet's out there for this sort of car.
    New Hyundai Kona with its 68 kw/hr battery with plenty of power and torque are in hot demand for those prepared to spend about $70K.
    Last edited by Beagle; 21-02-2019 at 09:45 PM.

  8. #1103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    Interestingly 2018 Nissan Leaf's (the new 40 kw/hr model) are starting to come down to about $45K now. Possibly one of the better bet's out there for this sort of car.
    New Hyundai Kona with its 68 kw/hr battery with plenty of power and torque are in hot demand for those prepared to spend about $70K.
    Why would you want to buy an EV when Auto Bild have shown that they are more damaging to the environment than a traditional ICE automobile?

  9. #1104
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    Why the heck would you want to waste tax payers dollars doing that? I would be royally annoyed as a tax payer if others got incentives to go and virtue signal their "greeness". Effectively taking from the poor and giving to middle class and higher luuvies.
    You mean it's ok for the gov't to think up an excuse to raise taxes on fossil fuel consumption "Let's call it a Carbon Tax" and add that to the general revenue? Common sense says in other countries, the idea of carbon taxation is to discourage that activity and REWARD those that choose to go towards greener (less carbon intensive) options (ie an EV, or Heat pumps).

    I myself don't believe it's fair the gov't slaps people on an activity they've been doing all along WITHOUT encouraging them to change. One way, in the form of car purchases, is to give EV a real viable 'competitive' option as they've done elsewhere in the world. Keep in mind, such EV credits don't last for long.

    The poor barely have enough to own a car. We have public transportation they can use. But if they so choose to own a car, there's no chance they'll go EV. Why should they? or more extremely, why should they own a car?
    Last edited by SBQ; 22-02-2019 at 01:56 PM.

  10. #1105
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    Seems that blackcap and SBQ have different ideas about carrots and sticks. How about a little of each?


  11. #1106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    https://www.driven.co.nz/news/news/t...m-its-website/
    Even at $US35,000 it would have bene close to $70,000 Kiwi with the exchange rate, freight and GST so it looks like anyone waiting for a so called "affordable" Tesla better not hold their breath.
    Looks like it's still on the website.

  12. #1107
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    Why would you want to buy an EV when Auto Bild have shown that they are more damaging to the environment than a traditional ICE automobile?
    Ignorance. They think they are saving the planet but are either unaware of what goes into the batteries (including child slave labour in the Congo for the cobalt) and the coal Genesis is burning to top up the tight supply on the national grid or choose to ignore these things as a matter of convenience...all so they can wear their badge of honour down at the local café sipping down latte's impressing their friends. For others its a cost saving thing and older first gen Leaf's can be had for as little as $10K now and there's no petrol so as long as they don't have far to travel they think they're sweet...until a few years down the track when their battery dies completely

  13. #1108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    Ignorance. They think they are saving the planet but are either unaware of what goes into the batteries (including child slave labour in the Congo for the cobalt) and the coal Genesis is burning to top up the tight supply on the national grid or choose to ignore these things as a matter of convenience...all so they can wear their badge of honour down at the local café sipping down latte's impressing their friends. For others its a cost saving thing and older first gen Leaf's can be had for as little as $10K now and there's no petrol so as long as they don't have far to travel they think they're sweet...until a few years down the track when their battery dies completely
    While I agree that the production of EV and it's batteries are not environmentally friendly, I do think the lifetime of the vehicle of EV is a far greener choice than ICE. Work out how many tons of CO2 is produced during the lifetime of fossil fuel an ICE produces? For a country like NZ where 80% of the electricity is from renewable sources ; the EV option seems sensible if you want to lower your carbon footprint. To be fair, consider the energy required to produce an ICE and all the parts required for the final product? Yes the industry is setup to produce steel from ore but that's very carbon intensive (as most steel foundries are coal fired). On the flip side, the mining of rare metals is also controversial so there should be a balance.

    Some of the limitations on EV such as temperature don't even come into play with our temperate climate. Whereas other countries with really high adoption rates of EV have very extreme temperatures. Why? Because the NZ gov't isn't serious about it. Maybe because EV users don't contribute to the fuel tax that is required to keep our roads maintained !! Perhaps current useres are getting a freebee, but in the near future, you can bet your boot once EV gets to a decent adoption rate, the RUC will come into play, and then people may go back to ICE.... or maybe not (if the gov't keeps going on a war path of taxing everything).
    Last edited by SBQ; 22-02-2019 at 10:32 PM.

  14. #1109
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    While I agree that the production of EV and it's batteries are not environmentally friendly, I do think the lifetime of the vehicle of EV is a far greener choice than ICE. Work out how many tons of CO2 is produced during the lifetime of fossil fuel an ICE produces?
    .
    AutoBild calculated that an EV would have to travel about 650,000km before it started becoming more environmentally friendly than and ICE engine. Not a compelling argument in my opinion.
    NZ may be 80% renewables with power generation but at the margins it is not. Every new EV that drives up demand increases the coal use at Huntly. THis also drives up the electricity price which is currently affecting NZ with gas outages and low hydro causing power prices 2-3x the norm and this is looking out to September if the futures are to be believed. Spot is currently very high too. Although a drenching will change that this weekend if it arrives in the SI.

  15. #1110
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    AutoBild calculated that an EV would have to travel about 650,000km before it started becoming more environmentally friendly than and ICE engine. Not a compelling argument in my opinion.
    NZ may be 80% renewables with power generation but at the margins it is not. Every new EV that drives up demand increases the coal use at Huntly. THis also drives up the electricity price which is currently affecting NZ with gas outages and low hydro causing power prices 2-3x the norm and this is looking out to September if the futures are to be believed. Spot is currently very high too. Although a drenching will change that this weekend if it arrives in the SI.

    Hi Blackcap, you may already have done so, but can you post a link to the Autobild article? I don't think it is a reasonable argument to say that very new EV increases the coal use at Huntly. A working assumption would be that EVs, like everything else, are running on 80% renewable electricity. In reality it is probably better than that as most EV owners are probably charging overnight taking advantage of off-peak discounts. I've had my EV for more than a year now and it is on target to be cost-effective as a commuter car

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