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  1. #1
    FEAR n GREED JBmurc's Avatar
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    Default "SHARE TRADING" strategies ,thoughts , ideas- why I love to pay TAX

    Ever since I doubled the value of my portfolio in the 04-05 fy (my third year of buying and selling my own shares online ,,,no more expensive stuffy old broker for me) I knew it was time to make a change


    I decided with the advice from my accountant to form a company and become a TAX paying Trader ....I had the Trading bug and finally with the new structure I could break loose and BUY and SELL whenever I wanted ....no more stress ....(well not really ended up way more stressful LOL)

    After simply thousands and thousands of hours of study and market watching have passed to date ...and I think it's about time I pass on some of my strategies thoughts ideas I have found have helped me get some brilliant returns and also what has cost me HUGE in wasted funds

    Any Questions..... personal viewpoints ....Good/bad outcomes from others efforts doesn't matter how stupid put it up>>>

    I'm certainly not the best technically trader but like the motto K.I.S.S .....

    Now and again I'll throw up a post on another aspect to my own trading style I've mashed together over the years ....
    Last edited by JBmurc; 01-07-2017 at 09:43 AM.
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  2. #2
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    First up-- my structure

    Formed company in 2006--- now I can hold shares or property for months years or days doesn't matter away's pay tax on the profits to claim tax credits on losses

    Now as it's a company my expenses are claimed pa -internet,cellphone,Skytv,laptop,loan interest,travel,end of fin year party etc ......

    Now I do borrow 150k funds for my company using equity from personal property(which is now debt free thanks to trading)

    so currently my interest costs our set for the next year 4.49% ...my goal of course is to make much much higher returns than costs ...my target has always been 100% growth pa so aggressive trading ...to date I have done it twice.. (looking good for third time 17/18)

    Now of course I still have a day job which I use to pay the ongoing expenses of the company ...running around 10-12k pa (which basically means I'm introducing more capital into the company's balance sheet ) this saves the hassle of bringing funds back from my AUD account
    even though I am buying a small vending business which should cover all costs going forward 17/18+

    My long term goal of course is to grow my company to a size where I can give up my hard labour seasonal job (fishing) to a lower paid lifestyle job while putting most of my time and efforts into the trading company to continue it's growth and income p.a past 100k pa on average
    Last edited by JBmurc; 01-07-2017 at 01:32 PM.
    People don't have ideas, ideas have people

  3. #3
    FEAR n GREED JBmurc's Avatar
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    Default #1 -how I find shares to trade------

    thanks to the PM's from novice traders out there ....honestly post on here!! and let's get the thread moving and hopefully drag in few legends of the trading game into the thread ...

    right to work (second day after minor surgery)am on drugs so hopefully don't stuff it up too much.....love the edit

    #1 -how I find shares to trade------anywhere and everywhere but mainly>>>>

    Most of the time I original come across the shares on Sharetrader or Hotcopper(ASX share forum)
    On HC the "ASX - Short Term Trading" thread is really good to bring to light some very good short term options at times ..

    then as the years past your find your watchlists get full and you have a great memory of ticker codes to refer back to going forward,,,

    Now with "Sharetrading" you don't have the time to sit back and do days of study before finally deciding on price your'd like to enter as your planning on holding for longer term much more factors come into play like divi yields ,longer term outlooks etc

    More so I want to look at the basics of MICRO and MACRO factors of the company in question ...basically what the mgmt of the company has direct control over and what they don't >>>

    MICRO- cash backing -shares on issue - admin costs- assets -market cap - top20 holders -forward plan(qtr outlook)- mgmt experience-chart trends,depth volume-

    MACRO- market sentiment towards the sector you're trading in ...prices of the resources - products what's the trend,, what time of year
    MAY JUNE great time to buy tax-loss selling pressure on the ASX ...

    Now as a trader you usually stick to sectors you have a interest and history in as it cuts down on time studying the MARCO's

    i.e-- you're looking over ASX Aus Gold producers .... you already know the higher than average AUD gold price and cheaper energy (low diesel costs) over the last many year ... and value given on peers in the sector so it's much easier to see a good value...

    So you're general confident on the Macro ....the first two micro's I'll look at is --- DEPTH and 1yr-6 month Chart

    example T/A on MCR (nickel, Gold explorer soon to be producer)

    as we know tax loss selling mainly in june MCR volume picking up till cut-off date in late JUNE
    nearly always see a bounce once that pressure releases

    the chart green line 30day and redline 60 day moving average always bullish when the SP crosses these points

    the depth chart as we can see a wall of Buyers keen to get on board ,,,holders less keen to put up there shares for sale (if you find many gaps in the offer is also a great sign)
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    Last edited by JBmurc; 01-07-2017 at 02:46 PM.
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  4. #4
    FEAR n GREED JBmurc's Avatar
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    Default more basics ----TRADING-&&&-EMOTIONS

    ....If you are thinking about getting into trading IMHO you really need to control your emotion around FEAR & GREED >>

    --11yrs on I'm finally after so many stupid mistakes getting a pretty solid BACKBONE to my trading style ....(but just like eating bad food etc it never goes away)

    #1-"never fall in love with a COMPANY".

    ...Can be hard at time when you have put many hours of study ..really respect what a company is doing or what they predict in forward plans etc .. maybe it's macro factors around the sector and you think you have found the next sector daring>>>>For a 'SHAREtrader" it's usually very easy to find the companies you have gone soft on as they are usually the one's gathering dust in the portfolio...
    I've found the biggest losses to date have many times come from companies where I have talked with mgmt sometimes many times in turn
    sometimes making you soft on Neg news or not meeting targets etc .....


    #2-"Let the numbers to the talking"

    Many times it best to let the numbers do the talking ...like the number of days overdue for a expected ann!!.... or cash balance ....forward cash burn .... your up 30% in under 30 days ...


    #3- "Have a basic outlook(SELL PRICE TARGET) for every company before you BUY it".....

    some can get riskier longer you hold it (cap raising needed.. value around only one project/drill/result etc).....others much safer if first targets aren't reached (many different outcomes could drive SP) ...so risk wise I would put a tight profit target and stop-loss on the former ....

    #4- "TRADE when you're in the Right frame of mind"

    When I'm tired ..maybe I didn't sleep well or just having rubbish day,,,, Sick etc,, sometimes it's best just to put some sell orders/ stop losses in place and go do something else>>>>


    #5- Accept TRADING mistakes.......

    Doesn't matter how brilliant you think you are at some point your make a trading error ..it's just human nature ...accept it move on ....don't get depressed or angry it'll just make it worse...At present I still have the likes of KBLO on my portfolio 100% loss(broke many basic rules buying those opts arrrghhh)
    Last edited by JBmurc; 03-07-2017 at 03:09 PM.
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  5. #5
    percy
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    I have found I have had to post less on ShareTrader,and not be the unpaid PR machine for a company or companies.You must not paint yourself into a corner.
    Listening to management is interesting.I find I must always compare results to what they have told me.
    So getting close to management only works if you can be objective.If management do not do what they say they will do,I sell.If they excede my expectations I buy more shares.
    Mistakes .Part of investing.Sell and move on.If you are making mistakes do not trade.If everyone is making big gains,and your shares are going no-where,re visit the reasons you brought those shares.If the reasons remain,sit tight,and your day will quickly come around again.
    Delays.All businesses will have delays and setbacks,but some companies have them all the time.Avoid them.Gunnas,gunna do this,gunna do that.Never happens.
    Add to winners.I love adding to shares I already own,rather than buying something else.Means I am getting it right.
    Enjoy the market.If you are not enjoying it,have a rest from it.
    Use Sharetrader for new ideas,but only buy when you have done your own research.
    You don't have to invest in every sector.Be happy investing in sectors you understand.
    I hate giving companies more cash.So if they have a rights issue,take extra time rereading your research.Any doubts,be gone.
    Last edited by percy; 05-07-2017 at 07:08 PM.

  6. #6
    FEAR n GREED JBmurc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by percy View Post
    I have found I have had to post less on ShareTrader,and not be the unpaid PR machine for a company or companies.You must not paint yourself into a corner.
    Listening to management is interesting.I find I must aways compare results to what they have told me.
    So getting close to management only works if you can be objective.If management to do not do what they say they will do,I sell.If they excede my expectations I buy more shares.
    Interesting angle Percy ...many thanks for joining the thread...

    I personal don't see myself as a free PR machine for listed companies(even though I guess at times it really seems that way) many a
    time I have posted against a company's values or mgmt direction ...at one point I had a CEO wanting to get my personal info from Hotcopper to press charges against me for so called defamation that he believed affected the SP (utter rubbish but I was banned for many months and had to change my Username)


    .I see Forums as an "online location" where I can throw down honest trading/investment... reference , plans , info , viewpoints , alignments ,results on many shares/opts/products etc.... with others in our small "Sharetrading" (investor) community ..may or may not have a viewpoint ...something it's just good to vent ....my wife/kids certainly don't want a bar of it LOL

    I know for a fact if it wasn't for ST or HC then I wouldn't be a Sharetrader ...the skills I've learnt online has been huge so many times it's self taught..... I'm strong believer in helping others in turn helps oneself >>>

    As to talking with management generally I find it pretty good ..usually to fill gaps on operations forward plans..issues I might have etc like you say keep it objective....

    Just a few times in the past I took on some pretty positive talk around operations etc to find out later it was pure BS ...now had I just gone off the market released news I don't think I would have committed as much funds ....certainly a learning experience..
    Last edited by JBmurc; 04-07-2017 at 08:30 PM.
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  7. #7
    percy
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    I think we have all suffered big doses of BS from management/directors.
    I was once a shareholder in Postie Plus.New MD was full of it.Then I compared results with his projections, and was gone.
    Heartland Bank I followed very closely right from word go.All the time they did what they said they would do.If I did not understand some thing, I would phone the CFO and find out.I kept increasing my holding.I then came under attack on sharetrader.People thought I was in love with the company.Yet, I was being objective all the time.I knew the right questions to ask,and compared results with the answers I got.

  8. #8
    FEAR n GREED JBmurc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by percy View Post
    I think we have all suffered big doses of BS from management/directors.
    I was once a shareholder in Postie Plus.New MD was full of it.Then I compared results with his projections, and was gone.
    Heartland Bank I followed very closely right from word go.All the time they did what they said they would do.If I did not understand some thing, I would phone the CFO and find out.I kept increasing my holding.I then came under attack on sharetrader.People thought I was in love with the company.Yet, I was being objective all the time.I knew the right questions to ask,and compared results with the answers I got.
    And you would have been richly rewarded ...my father always goes on about how great Heartland bank is >>>
    nothing better than effort being rewarded
    People don't have ideas, ideas have people

  9. #9
    percy
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBmurc View Post
    And you would have been richly rewarded ...my father always goes on about how great Heartland bank is >>>
    nothing better than effort being rewarded
    Always listen to your dad...lol.
    I guess really JB it comes down to us doing our research.The better our research is, the better the results we get.Then comparing company results with our research.If the company does not come up with the goods we sell,yet if they do what we expect,or better, we buy more and let our profits run,all the time making sure "the story" stays intact.
    The problem I then have, is deciding whether companies such as ,AIA,EBO, FPH,MFT and POT should be held, when their PE is two to three times their growth rate,and their dividend yield is very low.In the case of these companies I sold them all except EBO, where I sold 60% of my holding.
    Last edited by percy; 05-07-2017 at 07:09 PM.

  10. #10
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    Yes but not only research but believing in yourself ... and that may seem really simple ..but for me success breeds successive trades ..

    So say out of the blue one of my investments I thought was brilliant comes out with a horror announcement VIL.asx a perfect case in point discovered OIL but then the OIL has disappeared months later >> SP tanked 90% nothing I could do about it ....really smashed me for 6
    .
    ... Confidence goes you trade bigger risks to make up the losses...you hold losing trades longer and cut winning trades earlier ...and for me just stop trading like I did pretty much for the bulk of 16/17 fin yr

    what I now implement in my trading style to hopefully fix issues of the past learnings is .....

    -Diverse my funds pretty evenly over 8-12 companies across many areas of the sectors I am focused on (in a Macro sense)
    -Cut the losses ride the gains let the numbers & T/A talk rather than mgmt hopes (do trades in thirds or half at a time)
    -Set Targets before you HOLD
    -Trade the same company ...farm the market etc if it has the volume to suit
    Last edited by JBmurc; 05-07-2017 at 11:28 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Thanks for this thread JBMurc really interesting stuff

  12. #12
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    Default Example a Great trade goes to plan>>>

    Yeah no stress lawson ..

    ....As a Trader one always loves a good trade that goes to plan... MCR is one that has played out perfectly for me in recent days....

    12-13th june - I come across MCR again on HC-Forum is a share I have traded before for great success(great mgmt in the past) so is one I check every so often but as it was in a strong downtrend with Nickel operation put on C&M and the Nickel price at record lows .wasn't to interested >> but I read a few posts on HC about a planned Gold toll treatment project for 2nd/Qtr 2018 ongoing exploration results and started my quick study>>(marco wise I was bullish on the GOLD sector esp in AUD)

    T/A first up>>

    the Depth table looked strong large Bids in place ....gappy small orders in the offers ----Tick

    then onto Chart looked at the 3yr for a start and seen once before MCR had found strong support at the 12-14c range (FEB16) and had bounced hard before trending back to present levels ...putting the two together I was keen to look further>>

    Onto more in depth upto date F/A

    I went straight to the recent presentation MAY17 --

    and seen they had 13mill+ cash march17 (no need for more cap to production)

    The near term Gold project scoping study stacked up good cashflows/AISC/grades/payback

    And a drill program in some very untouched Gold hotspots....

    and even some Lithium leads

    ....that was me I in BUY,BUY BUY... MCR in @ 14c and back again doubling my holding days later 16c when the trend line when through the Moving averages (T/A)


    -----------------then onwards to 3rd july ---- SP was driving much higher 20c then even touched 24c briefly

    ann.. for the day JV drilling starting on one of MCR non-core assets(copper etc) ...but Gold was crushed down $15oz

    was really watching impressed with the strong bidding to offers in the DEPTH ....then watched some profit taking coming in and without
    any new info decided to take half of the table 21.5c gone ...happy with that see what the next day brings ....

    4th July more shares trading not much direction ...wall of selling building in the DEPTH ....starting to look like it had run out of steam ..no new updates .... Gold NIckel ...doing nothing ... sold my other half 21c ....

    today I seen the selling pressure has pushed MCR back towards 18.5c

    will be watching tomorrow ....but most likely I will be Buying back in again soon 14c-15c I certainly will be
    People don't have ideas, ideas have people

  13. #13
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    One thing I do is to dip a toe in the water of a company that looks interesting but on the risky side. So buy a couple of thou shares and keep watching. Of course could watch without buying any shares but for me does make it more real.

    Also I make a bit of an effort to go to ASMs if they are local (Welly). And if the speakers don't mention risks (a few do, most don't) I will ask during the meeting or afterwards - what keeps them up at night. I find I get OK answers to that question most of the time.

    In my view, identifying and managing risk is the #1 job of management and boards. Pity some prefer the rose tinted specs.

  14. #14
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    Yes artemis ....I also like to dip my toe into the higher risk BUYs I'm still not 100% on ..many times volumes can be very low so you have to buy in muti parcels
    People don't have ideas, ideas have people

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    so explain how your whole setup is tax efficient?

    Because if you don't do it through a company - ie don't say you are a professional trader you don't get cap gain taxed anyway... You also don't get to claim all those expenses... but you could just push those through an investment property anyway.

    So you pay tax on your cap gains, but because you can also claim a tax break on your losing trades + some expenses... its better overall?

    Doesn't make sense to me.... Unless you where never making that much profitable trades anyway (thats what it implies.. no offence intended) its like negative gearing

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