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  1. #1
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    Default Labour to Tax Water

    I'd like to be able ot comment on the policy - but there isnt one. Seems the idea will go out to consultation after the election.

    So after a quick scan I may be able to support a tax on bottled water for export. Except tax is already being raised from the GSt and PAYE generated by the businesses bottling the water.

    As for farmers, they may as well look at a tax on sunshine as well.

    That said I wouldnt mind a bit of a tax going on the water going into Coke

  2. #2
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    Never really understood why people get knickers in a twist over charging for the trillions of litres of water that falls out of the sky for free every year. Most of which ends up in the sea. Paying for infrastructure to treat, store or transport it - no problem.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    I'd like to be able ot comment on the policy - but there isnt one. Seems the idea will go out to consultation after the election.

    So after a quick scan I may be able to support a tax on bottled water for export. Except tax is already being raised from the GSt and PAYE generated by the businesses bottling the water.

    As for farmers, they may as well look at a tax on sunshine as well.

    That said I wouldnt mind a bit of a tax going on the water going into Coke
    I don't think there is GST on exports.

  4. #4
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 777 View Post
    I don't think there is GST on exports.
    gst is on all local purchases like oil for machines, power and presumsbly plastic bottles

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    I'd like to be able ot comment on the policy - but there isnt one. Seems the idea will go out to consultation after the election.

    So after a quick scan I may be able to support a tax on bottled water for export. Except tax is already being raised from the GSt and PAYE generated by the businesses bottling the water.

    As for farmers, they may as well look at a tax on sunshine as well.

    That said I wouldnt mind a bit of a tax going on the water going into Coke
    Let them take the water for export, as long as it is bottled here. Heaps of jobs, so encourage it.

  6. #6
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    John Key steadfastly said "nobody" owns the water. That was the Government's stance when it fought this at the Waitangi Tribunal. The Government starting direct charges for water is a major change and will open up a big can of worms. Maori will go straight back to the Tribunal. Ill thought out and dangerous from Labour , don't even have a policy ready. Just being populist saying they will charge foreign companies taking and exporting water but that quantity is miniscule in the scheme of things. Think irrigation, horticulture, wine, beer, meat works, you name it
    Last edited by iceman; 10-08-2017 at 09:08 AM.

  7. #7
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    iceman, I expect them to backtrack on most of the policy manque and go forward with the export water bottlers only. There seems to be a groundswell of support for that, such as Bung the Bore. Whether that support base understands the issues is a whole other story.

  8. #8
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    They will be taxing the Air next, a breathing tax.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ratkin View Post
    They will be taxing the Air next, a breathing tax.
    But it will be a regional tax; will apply only in Auckland.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemis View Post
    iceman, I expect them to backtrack on most of the policy manque and go forward with the export water bottlers only. There seems to be a groundswell of support for that, such as Bung the Bore. Whether that support base understands the issues is a whole other story.
    Yes exactly, just pure populism. The total amount of water exported annually as drinking water from NZ, runs under a bridge on the Waikato River in 33 seconds I read today.
    Last edited by iceman; 10-08-2017 at 05:46 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    Yes exactly, just pure populism. The total amount of water exported as drinking water from NZ, runs under a bridge on the Waikato River every 33 seconds I read today.
    Every 33 seconds sounds like a lot of water. I thought it was very little volume as a percentage..

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Every 33 seconds sounds like a lot of water. I thought it was very little volume as a percentage..
    You got me. Corrected

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    You got me. Corrected
    Ah. That's better. I thought it sounded a bit haywire.

  14. #14
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    Yes exactly, just pure populism. The total amount of water exported annually as drinking water from NZ, runs under a bridge on the Waikato River in 33 seconds I read today.
    Interesting example in the context of water, tax and money going to clean waterways. As a youngster growing up beside the Waikato you did not swim in it for its filth. Only good for the occasional eel or on a stinking hot day you would risk a paddle in a backwater eddy. That was many years ago and before "blo0dy dairy farms polluting the water!!!!"

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    Yeah but you can't drink that water that runs under the bridge over the waikato river.
    Water charge sounds great. user pays then user will learn to conserve and value and protect the quality of the resource rather than the expendable opposite. Good one Labour. just another thing the nat didn't have the guts to look at and action,(protecting their base?).

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    I find this interesting and relevant to whats happening in other parts of the world. BTW its user pays in my city for water too.

    D. PROSPECTS FOR WATER PRICING

    Looking at the evolution of water prices relative to headline inflation from1986 to 2011, real water prices have risen similarly to those of oil,highlighting the scarcity of the resource. Should this trend continue, thesector is likely to offer further strong risk-adjusted returns for equityinvestorsxl.
    Whereas most utilities encounter issues raising cost-covering watertariffs, the price of water has increased significantly in many regions inrecent years. In the US and UK, water tariffs have outstripped headlineinflation by 18% and 27% respectively over the past five years. Theequivalent statistics for the same period for Europe, Canada andAustralia show outperformance of 9%, 35% and 22% respectively in waterprices over and above headline inflationxli.

    There is considerable disparity in water prices between countries. Theprice of a cubic meter of water in France, which is relatively water-rich, isabout 50% higher than the price of a cubic meter of water in Spain, whichis considered to be water-poor. Countries including the UK, Denmark andGermany set tariffs not only covering operating costs, but also coveringthe capital financing costs. Libya, Ireland and Turkmenistan, barely
    charge for water services at all and taxpayers bear the entire financingburden. In China and India, water is very cheap as a percentage ofdisposable income, but this fosters over-extraction of water resources, asituation that will prove to be unsustainablexlii.
    In China in 2009 the integrated water price of 36 large and medium-sizedcities went up 5.5% year-on-year. Larger increases can be expected inthe years ahead, given that many hike requests have been lodged withthe local pricing agency but have yet to be implemented. Recent tariffannouncements highlight the government’s strong commitment to raisingtariffs, an important factor in the future development of the Chinesewater market.

  17. #17
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    A fiend today said that when we started paying a user pays water charge to our council a few years back ,our water use in this city dropped 30 % overnight!! A great example of user pays in operation ;users will value water and conserve and look after it purity wise much more. And with more high tech stuff like Drones to check out which paddocks or parts of paddocks (orchards etc too) need irrigation we are on to a winner all-round.

  18. #18
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    Which city charges you for water JT ?

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    Hi iceman. I will try and find the time to verify the above water savings stated but until then its not a fact; but it sure makes good sense. Thanks for your question jt

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    Which city charges you for water JT ?
    Good question iceman.

    They don't charge him for water. They charge him for the utilities cost. When a farmer uses his own bore to irrigate there are no utilities costs. He pays for the bore and piping himself. That is why he only pays a consent fee. Labour have no idea of the complexity of taking ownership of water, otherwise they wouldn't be proposing it. Their first hurdle will of course be the Treaty.

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