Labour to Tax Water

[minimoke]

[QUOTE=xafalcon;684092]Easy
In non-irrigated areas it should be ratio'ed on head count and animal type
/QUOTE]
It should then be on rainfall - because that is what flows over the ground, picking up pollutants on the way to the river.

Clearly this is all very tricky. And quite obviuosly Labour hasnt given it any thought despite their 9 years thumb twiddling in opposition.

Its no wonder jacinda has today announced no changes in tax till next elections.

(And all this is without maori input into the water tax)

[xafalcon]

That, however, is not a water tax. It is a livestock tax in the context of farmers.

I should have been clearer in my post.

The water tax was a subset of what I wrote "Individual region pollution remediation cost / litres irrigated in the region X litres irrigated on the individual farm = individual farm irrigation tax. Spread tax bill equally over a number of years eg 20 years. The tax is levied on the farm, not the owner"

The rest of the post was my opinion that all farmers should pay for their pollution, regardless of whether they irrigate or not. And is a livestock tax as you correctly point out

[blackcap]

The rest of the post was my opinion that all farmers should pay for their pollution, regardless of whether they irrigate or not. And is a livestock tax as you correctly point out

That would not be fair to the non-irrigators. The irrigators or those that cause the most problems will then increase their irrigating and game theory will purport that irrigation as a whole will increase. The opposite of what they (labour) want.

[xafalcon]

That would not be fair to the non-irrigators. The irrigators or those that cause the most problems will then increase their irrigating and game theory will purport that irrigation as a whole will increase. The opposite of what they (labour) want.

Life isn't fair

But I disagree with your game theory. Increase stock head-count = increase of livestock tax. Increase irrigation water use = increase in water tax. Rates don't necessarily need to be the same. If irrigators cause most of the problem, weight in favour of irrigators paying most of the remediation cost

KISS theory. Don't over-think

I think what "they" want is actually what most NZer's want. Cleaner rivers and lakes that have been degraded over decades of insufficient effluent and run-off control from the farming sector.

Failure to address this problem runs the risk of endangering our biggest export earner - tourism

Townies already pay their way through the waste water treatment portion of local body rates

[minimoke]

KISS theory. Don't over-think

Clearly labours stategy - though some thinking would be useful

[Joshuatree]

Landowners selling water what a farce

"$1 a cubic metre I think personally undervalues what the water can produce. If you look at what each cubic metre "


"But in the absence of charges from central or local Government, a market for water has sprung up anyway. One consultancy, Hydro Traders, is helping landowners sell water from the Selwyn-Waimakiriri and Selwyn-Rakaia areas in amounts usually ranging from 50 million to 500 million litres a year (50,000- 500,000 cubic metres) for prices of roughly $50,000 to $500,000 (based on the ten most recent sales).
One particularly large trade in 2015 allowed the buyer to take more than 2 billion litres of water annually from the Hurunui River, with a daily limit of 15 million litres. Wellington City, by comparison, uses 30 billion litres of water a year for household and industrial purposes.
The sales are often happening in catchments where councils have belatedly realised they have given out more extraction rights than rivers can stand, meaning a landowner's prospects of getting a new permit, or increasing an existing one, are slim to non-existent. Most of the confirmed trading is happening in Canterbury, although Otago also has high numbers of water transfers between landowners (though not necessarily trading for money) and there are anecdotal reports of water sales from Marlborough.
The man facilitating much of the trading in Canterbury — Hydro Traders' managing director Anthony Davoren — believes water should be selling for more. "$1 a cubic metre I think personally undervalues what the water can produce. If you look at what each cubic metre of water can produce and the long-term average of various commodities, whether it's wheat or barley or potatoes or milk solids or red meat protein, that water is probably a little undervalued," says Davoren."
When the river runs dry: The true cost of NZ water

[Joshuatree]

No comments I'm amazed!.
If anyone is concerned about the water degradation in our rivers etc go to the movie doc "Seven Rivers Walking" in theatres now. About streams and rivers on the Canterbury plains being degraded and in some cases disappearing with the water take out.

with the water take!With walkers, rafters, anglers and farmers, this documentary journeys from the alpine to spring rivers of Canterbury, exploring above and below the surfaces in search of ways through a freshwater crisis.
"Who can deny that the city rivers of Christchurch and the braided rivers of the Canterbury Plains have been poisoned and depleted for the sake of agri-business? In one of the many personal anecdotes that drive this film, a fisherman recalls how the mighty Rakaia once pushed its way a mile out to sea. Aerial footage shows us the river today as it slinks into the sea, obliterated by the first breaker that crosses its path. In the polarised political environment of 2017, this film is a disarmingly peaceable one. It places the hope of change in a shared love of Canterbury’s rivers and riparian environments and a profound appreciation of their ecology."
With walkers, rafters, anglers and farmers, this documentary journeys from the alpine to spring rivers of Canterbury, exploring above and below the surfaces in search of ways through a freshwater crisis.
"Who can deny that the city rivers of Christchurch and the braided rivers of the Canterbury Plains have been poisoned and depleted for the sake of agri-business? In one of the many personal anecdotes that drive this film, a fisherman recalls how the mighty Rakaia once pushed its way a mile out to sea. Aerial footage shows us the river today as it slinks into the sea, obliterated by the first breaker that crosses its path. In the polarised political environment of 2017, this film is a disarmingly peaceable one. It places the hope of change in a shared love of Canterbury’s rivers and riparian environments and a profound appreciation of their ecology."With walkers, rafters, anglers and farmers, this documentary journeys from the alpine to spring rivers of Canterbury, exploring above and below the surfaces in search of ways through a freshwater crisis.
"Who can deny that the city rivers of Christchurch and the braided rivers of the Canterbury Plains have been poisoned and depleted for the sake of agri-business? In one of the many personal anecdotes that drive this film, a fisherman recalls how the mighty Rakaia once pushed its way a mile out to sea. Aerial footage shows us the river today as it slinks into the sea, obliterated by the first breaker that crosses its path. In the polarised political environment of 2017, this film is a disarmingly peaceable one. It places the hope of change in a shared love of Canterbury’s rivers and riparian environments and a profound appreciation of their ecology."

[777]

Nobody wants to play with you JT.

[Joshuatree]

Play?!. Its our environment going down the gurgler. More like facts you just don't want to face, thats not going to help being passive as the problem is only going to get bigger with another 250 300 thousand hectares planned to be irrigated and irrigators prepared to pay up to $1.50 a cubic metre.
What a rort!. Hoping the greens get in to sort it out.

[777]

Play?!. Its our environment going down the gurgler. More like facts you just don't want to face, thats not going to help being passive as the problem is only going to get bigger with another 250 300 thousand hectares planned to be irrigated and irrigators prepared to pay up to $1.50 a cubic metre.
What a rort!. Hoping the greens get in to sort it out.

JT have a think how many cubic metres of water an average farm would use for irrigation during a summer. Now if they were paying $1 a cubic metre they would be broke after the first week. You need to investigate further what is meant by $1/ cu. mtr actually means.