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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    Wow. So much bitterness. You’re the 2 year old who doesn’t want to share the playground.
    Another personal attack, why do you not stick to the issues?
    Last edited by ratkin; 23-04-2020 at 07:35 AM.

  2. #62
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    I cannot see what the problem is? if you look at the traffic on the sales and buys to me it looks like the Sharesies investors are doing quite a bit of buying. In order to test it out I joined up and made a few buys...its very simple..well designed...operates quickly and buying on market my buys were literally filled (and showed) instantly. Admittedly this was on a fairly quiet performer but when I looked at the sales you could see that 90% of those showing were Sharesies people (smaller quantities). My take on this is, firstly buys, though probably smaller individually, actually added up to something more substantial when you put them together. AND this was enabling the largeish sell order to be fulfilled, even if it was in smaller chunks. Dare I say it but sharesies is possibly helping the market from falling further. See below the DB sale chart for Augusta a minute ago....all look like Sharesies
    Recent Trades
    Price Volume Time Cond
    91 2 12:26
    90.5 49 12:17
    90.5 25 12:17
    90.5 28 12:17
    90 16 12:00
    90.5 2 12:00
    90.5 108 12:00
    90.5 22 11:59
    90.5 11 11:48
    90.5 44 11:46
    90.5 220 11:29
    90.5 146 11:25
    90.5 11 11:24
    90.5 55 11:07
    90.5 28 10:57

    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post

    If technology had made it the concept of minimum parcels redundant then its quite likely we wouldn't be having these problems would we?

    Although I do agree that NZX have miscalculated regarding the impact Sharesies has had so ultimately it is their fault and not Sharesies. Exchanges should be able to cope with much larger volumes than their daily averages
    But I still think its worthwhile some cantankerous old rissole like me pointing out where the problem (probably) arises from.

    And I've also pointed out - sometime before the Corona crash - that all these tiny investors signalled the end of the bull market. Oddly they are staying around tho so clearly we have a lot further to fall.
    Last edited by BIRMANBOY; 23-04-2020 at 11:32 AM.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIRMANBOY View Post
    I cannot see what the problem is?
    The problem is that online brokers are very slow in updating trade status , as in hours or overnight in some cases.
    .
    The brokers are blaming NZX systems and now we can see NZX accept that responsibility.

    NZX have confirmed It is a transactional capacity issue which is presumably brought on by a large number of smaller retail investors that have entered the market for various reasons recently facilitated mainly by Sharesies who operate with no minimum transaction size.
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  4. #64
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    So if we agree that it is an NZX issue, which hopefully they will address, can we give Sharesies and Sharesies investors a break? There is room for all of us, and we all have a part to play, regardless of the size of our pay checks, wallets or portfolios.

    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    The problem is that online brokers are very slow in updating trade status , as in hours or overnight in some cases.
    .
    The brokers are blaming NZX systems and now we can see NZX accept that responsibility.

    NZX have confirmed It is a transactional capacity issue which is presumably brought on by a large number of smaller retail investors that have entered the market for various reasons recently facilitated mainly by Sharesies who operate with no minimum transaction size.

  5. #65
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    No I absolutely understand that the capacity is compromised, but as I mentioned earlier this is probably something that will be in the process of being fixed. Its the period in between that is frustrating for investors. As a website builder (but not programmer), I know that it takes time to get things changed and improvements made...and ..all at the time when the s**t hit the fan. One would assume that when the agreement was made between Sharesies and NZX, the NZX engineers worked on the assumption that they could build into the system gradually as the levels grew. Unfortunately, the triple whammy of bear market, covid-19 and huge influx of new investors from Sharesies has buggered the "graduality" of it. Important to recognise that the Sharesies is not to blame however. I think we can all recognise that more investors is good overall and hopefully improvements will be forthcoming soon.
    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    The problem is that online brokers are very slow in updating trade status , as in hours or overnight in some cases.
    .
    The brokers are blaming NZX systems and now we can see NZX accept that responsibility.

    NZX have confirmed It is a transactional capacity issue which is presumably brought on by a large number of smaller retail investors that have entered the market for various reasons recently facilitated mainly by Sharesies who operate with no minimum transaction size.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    So if we agree that it is an NZX issue, which hopefully they will address, can we give Sharesies and Sharesies investors a break? T
    not really !!

    coz the NZX has made a mistake where the impact goes beyond themselves - after all this is a regulated monopoly provider
    The people who pay most of the fees in the industry generated through transactional costs (I.e the decent sized players using online brokers or even standard retail brokers ) are being penalised with delays all so that a lot of penny and dime transactions (generating hardly any fees for anybody) can be dealt with.

    It doesn't seem quite fair to me.

    However let me make it quite clear that I don't personally care myself all that much ! Because I day trade using a CFD provider and invest using an online broker where minute by minute prices are not so imperative that I can deal with it using limits etc. Hence why I have chastised Sharesies for causing the problem I have also suggested day traders use a different mechanism , one that is more able to provide instantaneous results.



    all the best justakiwi, I sincerely am glad you can buy securities (but lets be real - the cost of you doing so is actually being paid for by larger investors)


    <subject closed from me>
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  7. #67
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    I am sorry I am costing you money. Sincerely.

    all the best justakiwi, I sincerely am glad you can buy securities (but lets be real - the cost of you doing so is actually being paid for by larger investors
    Probably best.

    <subject closed from me>

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    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    not really !!

    .



    all the best justakiwi, I sincerely am glad you can buy securities (but lets be real - the cost of you doing so is actually being paid for by larger investors)


    <subject closed from me>
    Maybe the cost is being subsidised. But that is because the NZX have set the rules the way they have set them. If you don't like it don't play in their pool. Seems like you have done that already with your CFD positions.
    I too have done that, now using Sharesies more than I would use Direct Broking. If everyone left Direct/ASB and went and used Sharesies it would be problem solved and everyone benefits. It is Direct Broking and ASB that need to adapt or they will become the relics that got taken over by digital disruptors. If the NZX does not allow them to adapt then they need to lobby the NZX or change their own business model. Direct, 20 years ago, was the disruptor themselves and which I was part of instigating. They may need to evolve again.

  9. #69
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    https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/r...0J67oBQeN5gn7c

    Refreshing to see somebody also sees this as a positive.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/r...0J67oBQeN5gn7c

    Refreshing to see somebody also sees this as a positive.
    article also says

    "
    it was institutional traders buying and selling big-name companies like Auckland International Airport and A2 Milk that were the biggest drivers of volumes."
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  11. #71
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    Yes, which is as you would expect, but I think it also shows that the world of investment is changing, and there is room for all of us.

    EDIT: Just saw this in Sharesies “Lunch Money” newsletter

    6 May 2019:
    43,000 investors
    $13.8m invested through Sharesies

    6 May 2020:
    146,000+ investors
    $370m+ invested through Sharesies

    There is a place for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    article also says

    "
    it was institutional traders buying and selling big-name companies like Auckland International Airport and A2 Milk that were the biggest drivers of volumes."
    Last edited by justakiwi; 06-05-2020 at 01:08 PM.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    There is a place for us.
    Yes there is of course but the cost (not always $ cost) of divvying up parcels into less than $500 should fall on Sharesies administration not on NZX
    I reckon they NZX caved in because they are shrinking from no new listings and needed revenue so badly that they couldn't negotiate a good deal with Sharesies. But hey pure speculation on my part.....
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    Yes there is of course but the cost (not always $ cost) of divvying up parcels into less than $500 should fall on Sharesies administration not on NZX
    I reckon they NZX caved in because they are shrinking from no new listings and needed revenue so badly that they couldn't negotiate a good deal with Sharesies. But hey pure speculation on my part.....
    The question I have though Peat, is is there a cost to the NZX of having a bunch of small trades go through? I understand in the past that brokers were not happy with odd lots as there was a lot of registration and administration to contend with (especially before CSN). But now with shares held in nominee by Sharesies, I fail to understand the cost that is imposed on the NZX for the small parcels that go through the screen. Maybe a bit of bandwidth but apart from that nothing else.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    The question I have though Peat, is is there a cost to the NZX of having a bunch of small trades go through? I understand in the past that brokers were not happy with odd lots as there was a lot of registration and administration to contend with (especially before CSN). But now with shares held in nominee by Sharesies, I fail to understand the cost that is imposed on the NZX for the small parcels that go through the screen. Maybe a bit of bandwidth but apart from that nothing else.
    the cost is borne by those who experience delays in their order processing due to overloading of the NZX systems, you know what everyone has been bitching about recently. each transaction has to be recorded even if its going to the same nominee account.
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

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    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    the cost is borne by those who experience delays in their order processing due to overloading of the NZX systems, you know what everyone has been bitching about recently. each transaction has to be recorded even if its going to the same nominee account.
    I was listening to a presentation by Mark Peterson (CEO of NZX) a few weeks ago. He implied that the delays etc were not an NZX problem but rather a broker back office problem.

    That is at odds with the NBR presentation of things. But either way, it means the NZX or brokers need to get with the times (ie the digital age). They have not invested enough in that space is the conclusion I draw.
    Last edited by blackcap; 07-05-2020 at 10:55 AM.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    I was listening to a presentation by Mark Peterson (CEO of NZX) a few weeks ago. He implied that the delays etc were not an NZX problem but rather a broker back office problem.

    That is at odds with the NBR presentation of things. But either way, it means the NZX or brokers need to get with the times (ie the digital age). They have not invested enough in that space is the conclusion I draw.
    Wow that would appear to be bull dung of the greatest order
    Even NZX released a statement saying it was them
    "NZX has experienced several technical issues in the last six
    trading days. The root cause of these issues appears to stem from a
    significant increase in trading volumes "
    Although I note it later says "
    The incidents primarily involve NZX's clearing and settlement system, which
    has come under significant pressure as it also acts as the gateway to report
    trade notifications and undertake shareholder balance enquiries for certain
    market participants." …..
    as if to say that that there are different systems reporting trade notification and s/h balance enquiries for different participants.


    I honestly thought NZX had accepted responsibility for the delays.
    Last edited by peat; 07-05-2020 at 11:26 AM.
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    Wow that would appear to be bull dung of the greatest order
    Even NZX released a statement saying it was them
    "NZX has experienced several technical issues in the last six
    trading days. The root cause of these issues appears to stem from a
    significant increase in trading volumes "
    Although I note it later says "
    The incidents primarily involve NZX's clearing and settlement system, which
    has come under significant pressure as it also acts as the gateway to report
    trade notifications and undertake shareholder balance enquiries for certain
    market participants." …..
    as if to say that that there are different systems reporting trade notification and s/h balance enquiries for different participants.


    I honestly thought NZX had accepted responsibility for the delays.
    That is what I had thought too, but Mark from what I heard seemed to be blaming the brokers more than the NZX. Either way, the NZX have allowed Sharesies to operate on their platform, just like the algo traders, and if theirs systems are not up to it then they need to solve them. Then again they do run a monopoly so what would they care if they annoy Direct and ASB. Mark Peterson should know though, until recently wasn't he the CEO of Direct Broking?

  18. #78
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    Just wondered if those using Sharesies have any particular strategy? Usually I buy via ASB and have 3-5 NZ holdings. Didn’t investigate Sharesies till recently. Decided to dollar cost average into a NZ agriculture (wine/fruit/fish) basket If my choosing which is kinda cool. Thinking about doing the same for farming and forestry (probably using proxy’s such as POT).

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    https://moneykingnz.com/buying-share...irect-broking/

    May be of interest. I’ll be staying with DB with my fingers crossed it gets a refresh at some stage.
    Apologies if posted elsewhere.

  20. #80
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    Got an email with new site for DB going live next month. Those happy to be the Guinea pigs and test drive it get one free trade.
    I'm happy to play possum from time to time but I'm happy to let others iron out the flaws and play Guinea pig.

    On the Sharsies thing, yeah I think its great that this makes investing affordable and enables newcomers to get into a wide range of investments but its not for me, I like my investments in my name with absolute and total control over them.
    Last edited by Beagle; 30-07-2020 at 04:06 PM.
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