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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    I am pretty comfortable too. I guess the only worry is say that Sharesies goes under, and the liquidator takes the assets that are in the custodial service...

    Otherwise it should be foolproof.
    That's why I like ASB or DB they are big fish in a small pond, I dont want a Halifax type scenario with the size of my account.

  2. #42
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    But from what I read at the link above, in the event of Sharesies going bust, the liquidators would not have access Sharesies Nominee Limited. They would be liquidating Sharesies Limited, not the Nominee Company. At least that is how I am reading it.

    If anything were to happen to Sharesies Limited, your money would still be safe because it’s held completely separately in Sharesies Nominee Limited and the NZX Depository! We hold your money and investments in Sharesies Nominee Limited and the NZX Depository ‘on bare trust’. This means we’re holding it on your behalf and in our name, but they still belong to you. We can’t do anything to your money or investments unless you tell us to (e.g. when you use Sharesies to deposit/withdraw money, or buy/sell shares).

    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    I am pretty comfortable too. I guess the only worry is say that Sharesies goes under, and the liquidator takes the assets that are in the custodial service...

    Otherwise it should be foolproof.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    But from what I read at the link above, in the event of Sharesies going bust, the liquidators would not have access Sharesies Nominee Limited. They would be liquidating Sharesies Limited, not the Nominee Company. At least that is how I am reading it.

    If anything were to happen to Sharesies Limited, your money would still be safe because it’s held completely separately in Sharesies Nominee Limited and the NZX Depository! We hold your money and investments in Sharesies Nominee Limited and the NZX Depository ‘on bare trust’. This means we’re holding it on your behalf and in our name, but they still belong to you. We can’t do anything to your money or investments unless you tell us to (e.g. when you use Sharesies to deposit/withdraw money, or buy/sell shares).
    Agree, it should be safe, its just that you do not 100% know that sharesies actually do put the investments into Sharesies NOminee Limited. And Trust have been busted in the past by good lawyers. Who is to say nominee accounts cannot be busted either. But I am no expert in these matters at all, just have a passing interest. Maybe someone with more knowledge can clarify the matter.

  4. #44
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    True, but if Sharesies were not putting investments into the Nominee Account, as they should be, the annual audit would surely capture that. I get where you’re coming from. I guess we just have to do our homework and follow our gut instincts to some extent.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    Agree, it should be safe, its just that you do not 100% know that sharesies actually do put the investments into Sharesies NOminee Limited. And Trust have been busted in the past by good lawyers. Who is to say nominee accounts cannot be busted either. But I am no expert in these matters at all, just have a passing interest. Maybe someone with more knowledge can clarify the matter.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    True, but if Sharesies were not putting investments into the Nominee Account, as they should be, the annual audit would surely capture that. I get where you’re coming from. I guess we just have to do our homework and follow our gut instincts to some extent.
    The annual audit would capture that, by then it may be too late. But yes gut instinct initially and time will increase their perceived viability and trust. I have spoken to the founders and exec team and am comfortable with my minimal investment there.

  6. #46
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    One needs faith that they keep doing things properly
    “What the wise man does in the beginning, the fool does in the end”

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    One needs faith that they keep doing things properly
    and this contradicts rule : DTA
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  8. #48
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    Are now offering live market depth for the price of $10 per month. That seems very reasonable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    Are now offering live market depth for the price of $10 per month. That seems very reasonable.
    Not the cheapest though. ASB give access to market depth for three months after making a trade, minimum borkerage is $15/trade, so you could get access to market depth for effectively $5/month by making one small trade every three months.

  10. #50
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    From this week’s Sharesies newsletter:

    Last week was a record breaking week—with 9,700 new investors joining Sharesies, and a whopping $81M being traded via Sharesies into funds and companies!
    In the next couple of months, we’ll be adding US shares to Sharesies—giving you more access, and more options to grow your wealth! We can’t give you an exact launch date just yet, but we’ll be sharing more details with you as we go. To get early access, register your interest on the Sharesies website.

    Sharesies is possibly having a bigger impact than we think.

  11. #51
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    NZX advise that volume has increased four times since a while back.
    Their website says they did $38.8 billion last year. which is only 100 mill per day
    They say in a video that they did 1.3 billion last week.
    I see Sharesies announced they did a record 80 million in a week.
    If Sharesies are creating significan transactional volume increases , on only 80M a turnover week then they should be pushed to the side of the road. That is less than 20% value on a normal week. But it will only be 5% of the increased volume so they are a piddle in the bucket and yet are stuffing up the system.

    BBMP
    Bring Back Minimum Parcel sizes (honestly its not that much)
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  12. #52
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    Long term view would seem to be that all of the new investors can only help the NZ share market. Advantages would be obvious...makes for more liquidity across the board as well as allowing access to another form of investment rather than just Term Deposits, kiwi saver and lotto tickets. Also many of the new entrants will continue on and become bigger investors as time goes by. More investors help drive up prices which benefits existing holders. Short term problems obviously for the NZX adjusting technology to cope with new growth but one assumes that will be overcome sooner rather than later. I think its great that there is another generation of investors created here. When you think about an investor just using a couple of hundred dollars it may seem a bit futile to a seasoned investor, but when you view it as a cumulative exercise and also consider the number of investors, it looks completely different. Go Sharesies.
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  13. #53
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    Wow. So much bitterness. You’re the 2 year old who doesn’t want to share the playground.

    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    If Sharesies are creating significant transactional volume increases , on only 80M a turnover week then they should be pushed to the side of the road. That is less than 20% value on a normal week. But it will only be 5% of the increased volume so they are a piddle in the bucket and yet are stuffing up the system.

    BBMP
    Bring Back Minimum Parcel sizes (honestly its not that much)
    Last edited by justakiwi; 22-04-2020 at 01:29 PM.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    Wow. So much bitterness. You’re the 2 year old who doesn’t want to share the playground.
    No I'm not bitter but its finance not tiddlywinks.

    I have followed your posts and fully applaud your investing and the strategy and totally agree that diversification is important for any portfolio
    but even you aren't buying 3 shares or 27 shares you're buying small parcels that cost $500 minimum and that's totally cool.
    I bought my first bond from Northern Territory Australia for $A500 - that was the minimum size and still wasn't worthwhile when I took exchange costs into account.

    There must have been a reason for a minimum parcel and now we know what it was.
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

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    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    No I'm not bitter but its finance not tiddlywinks.

    I have followed your posts and fully applaud your investing and the strategy and totally agree that diversification is important for any portfolio
    but even you aren't buying 3 shares or 27 shares you're buying small parcels that cost $500 minimum and that's totally cool.
    I bought my first bond from Northern Territory Australia for $A500 - that was the minimum size and still wasn't worthwhile when I took exchange costs into account.

    There must have been a reason for a minimum parcel and now we know what it was.
    I tend to disagree with you on this one Peat. Technology has allowed the minimum parcel sizes to be redundant. I too used to know the term "odd lot".
    Unfortunately it is the NZX that is not up to the party here trying to run a modern system on old hard/software. The NZX have made Sharesies a market participant. More fool them if they did not see the enthusiasm that the ordinary folk had for investing in shares and being able to make their own balanced portfolios with minimal $.
    I am in the process of making my own index fund, which I will manage and invest in on my own behalf. Now with Sharesies it is possible to do something like that even with a portfolio value of even say $25k. In the past it would have been prohibitive.

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    Mmmm .... I have no idea why you think that, but no I am not.

    Prior to covoid I was investing $40 a week, split between 4 holdings. One of which is USF. So every week I was buying 1 point something of a USF share, and varying small amounts of my other holdings. Lately, I have not been making regular weekly orders but buying here and there as funds permit, if I think there is some value in buying. Yesterday I bought 30 something shares.

    Which, as far as I am concerned, is also “totally cool.”

    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    but even you aren't buying 3 shares or 27 shares you're buying small parcels that cost $500 minimum and that's totally cool.
    Last edited by justakiwi; 22-04-2020 at 02:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    I tend to disagree with you on this one Peat. Technology has allowed the minimum parcel sizes to be redundant. I too used to know the term "odd lot".
    Unfortunately it is the NZX that is not up to the party here trying to run a modern system on old hard/software. The NZX have made Sharesies a market participant. More fool them if they did not see the enthusiasm that the ordinary folk had for investing in shares and being able to make their own balanced portfolios with minimal $.
    I am in the process of making my own index fund, which I will manage and invest in on my own behalf. Now with Sharesies it is possible to do something like that even with a portfolio value of even say $25k. In the past it would have been prohibitive.
    How are you accomplishing this in a NZ market presence by sector / industry? The NZ50 alone is too risky with so many in that list that will be destined for bankruptcy. Will you be tracking every stock in that sector and do all the rebalancing? How about the high commissions for making trades ; which will reflect in your annual cost? If lowering risk through diversification is your strategy, i'm afraid you won't do it in the NZ market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    Mmmm .... I have no idea why you think that, but no I am not.

    Prior to covoid I was investing $40 a week, split between 4 holdings. One of which is USF. So every week I was buying 1 point something of a USF share, and varying small amounts of my other holdings. Lately, I have not been making regular weekly orders but buying here and there as funds permit, if I think there is some value in buying. Yesterday I bought 30 something shares.

    Which, as far as I am concerned, is also “totally cool.”
    We have crossed paths many times justakiwi over the past couple of years on this forum. If you recall, I made a response that it was more likely a stock market crash were to occur and it's not so strategic to put all your $ in a timely way of investing (ie in weekly contributions like Kiwi Saver). I mentioned to the person wanting to start investing, I replied that there would be a high probability of a stock market crash in the near short or long term future because we've come a long way since 2008. Now here we are justakiwi witnessing this major global crisis. WTI crude oil has crashed to negative territory (never in history has this happened).

    What does this mean from now on? Well, to those starting to invest, i'm afraid they would be in a better position than those that have stayed invested for the past 2 or 3 years. This is the reason for the increase interest in investing as we've see by the Sharesies data.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    How are you accomplishing this in a NZ market presence by sector / industry? The NZ50 alone is too risky with so many in that list that will be destined for bankruptcy. Will you be tracking every stock in that sector and do all the rebalancing? How about the high commissions for making trades ; which will reflect in your annual cost? If lowering risk through diversification is your strategy, i'm afraid you won't do it in the NZ market.
    I will be using the NZ50 as a proxy. In my younger years I used to administer a passive NZ fund. Its not that difficult to do in Excel. I will have parameters so that rebalancing only has to be done weekly (or monthly) and there will be some leeway in the requirements to avoid unnecessary transactions. Brokerage on Sharesies is so low that this is immaterial. Other passive funds also have brokerage to contend with yet its not a problem for them. As with passive funds, I will not be trying to pick winners or losers. Just invest within the parameter and get the index return (including the management fee which I will pocket myself) Ie not have to pay Smartshares their 0.54% per annum or whatever it is these days.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    I tend to disagree with you on this one Peat. Technology has allowed the minimum parcel sizes to be redundant. I too used to know the term "odd lot".
    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    Unfortunately it is the NZX that is not up to the party here trying to run a modern system on old hard/software. The NZX have made Sharesies a market participant.


    If technology had made it the concept of minimum parcels redundant then its quite likely we wouldn't be having these problems would we?

    Although I do agree that NZX have miscalculated regarding the impact Sharesies has had so ultimately it is their fault and not Sharesies. Exchanges should be able to cope with much larger volumes than their daily averages
    But I still think its worthwhile some cantankerous old rissole like me pointing out where the problem (probably) arises from.

    And I've also pointed out - sometime before the Corona crash - that all these tiny investors signalled the end of the bull market. Oddly they are staying around tho so clearly we have a lot further to fall.
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

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