ACT's David Seymour - i like his style.

[blackcap]

I agree, she has pecuniary motivations not to allow euthanasia



Yes and all of those organizations have pecuniary motivations as well.

That's a bit nasty of you. Casting aspersions there. Can you back up your assertions?

[Norwest]

I didn't want to appear as mean or nasty. I apologize if you felt I meant to come off that way.

If Euthanasia is made legal, there is going to be less of a need for palliative care. Less palliative care equals less money (e.g. government subsidies, funding etc and also private money) given to anyone involved with providing palliative care.

adjective: palliative (of a medicine or medical care) relieving pain without dealing with the cause of the condition.

adjective: pecuniary relating to or consisting of money.

The fact that the palliative care doctor arguing with Seymour is involved with a private healthcare facility has it's ownership structured in a way through a systematic series of holding companies ultimately ending up in the Channel Island's, a known tax haven. If she wasn't involved with this organization I would have kept my mouth shut.

[fungus pudding]

I didn't want to appear as mean or nasty. I apologize if you felt I meant to come off that way.

If Euthanasia is made legal, there is going to be less of a need for palliative care. Less palliative care equals less money (e.g. government subsidies, funding etc and also private money) given to anyone involved with providing palliative care.

adjective: palliative (of a medicine or medical care) relieving pain without dealing with the cause of the condition.

adjective: pecuniary relating to or consisting of money.

The fact that the palliative care doctor arguing with Seymour is involved with a private healthcare facility has it's ownership structured in a way through a systematic series of holding companies ultimately ending up in the Channel Island's, a known tax haven. If she wasn't involved with this organization I would have kept my mouth shut.

Fascinating. How about some more detail, e.g. name of pvt. healthcare facility, details of holding companies etc.

[moka]

All good, cheers.
I'm finding it a difficult decision & can see arguments both for & against, not so much against euthanasia but the way the bill is written.
I suppose the two things which got to me were the arguments 1) the safeguards in the way the bill is presently written as not being considered safe enough or workable by many in the palliative care sector.
2) like a jury decision, needing to be 100% certain the bill in it's current form is not ever going to result in any suffering or injustice to anyone in an extremely vulnerable position.
However, I'll continue to think about it.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/23-...cal-care-laws/
The End of Life Choice bill is safer than many of our current critical care laws.

A lot of the recent focus from opponents has been on how we can’t be absolutely certain that the act will be safe. How it isn’t entirely “watertight.” Quite reasonably, people will wonder and worry about those sorts of claims. But how worrying are they?

What’s a lot more dubious is the idea that this is a unique or particular risk for assisted dying, that can only be addressed by banning it altogether.
The main risks that opponents have been pointing to seem to be:
That doctors can’t predict with absolute accuracy that someone is within six months of death.
That doctors can’t determine with perfect accuracy that someone is competent, or that they aren’t being pressured.

I’m willing to concede both of these points. It probably is impossible to be perfectly certain about either of those things. But that’s not in any way particular to the EoLC Act.

We don’t know the precise figure, but a 2017 article in the British Journal of Anaesthesia claimed that treatment withdrawal decisions account for 60% of deaths in critical care.
If we were being honest, we’d have to admit that very few of those decisions were 100% certain or “watertight”.

When a doctor makes a call that a tumour or aneurism isn’t operable; that a patient isn’t suitable for dialysis or transplant; that aggressive treatment isn’t appropriate or that life support should be withdrawn from a patient with no chance of recovery – these are all judgment calls.

The End of Life Choice Act has better safety features than any of those decisions. While we can refuse life-saving treatment even if it would restore us to perfect health, assisted dying will only be an option for those who are close to death already. Maybe doctors can’t always say with total accuracy that they’re within six months of death, but it’s a pretty major safeguard over and above those other life-ending choices.

[moka]

Fascinating. How about some more detail, e.g. name of pvt. healthcare facility, details of holding companies etc.

https://www.wakefield.co.nz/speciali...nnelly,-sinead
Dr Sinead Donnelly works at Wakefield Hospital. The article said that “a televised debate on the upcoming euthanasia referendum turned nasty, when one participant accused the other of basing her objections on religion, not facts”
Interesting that the hospital was started over 80 years ago by a Catholic order of nursing sisters.

There has been a hospital on the present Wakefield Hospital site in the Wellington suburb of Newtown for over 80 years. Lewisham Hospital was owned and operated by a Catholic order of nursing sisters. The name of the hospital was changed to Calvary Hospital in 1953 and the Mary Potter Hospice operated at the hospital until 1990.
In December 2015, Evolution Healthcare (a privately owned Australian and New Zealand private hospital operator) acquired 100% of Acurity Health Group Ltd (NZ). Evolution Healthcare continues to focus on supporting staff, VMO engagement and developing the staged expansion plan for Wakefield Hospital.
https://www.acurity.co.nz/about-us/our-history

[fungus pudding]

https://www.wakefield.co.nz/speciali...nnelly,-sinead
Dr Sinead Donnelly works at Wakefield Hospital. The article said that “a televised debate on the upcoming euthanasia referendum turned nasty, when one participant accused the other of basing her objections on religion, not facts”
Interesting that the hospital was started over 80 years ago by a Catholic order of nursing sisters.

There has been a hospital on the present Wakefield Hospital site in the Wellington suburb of Newtown for over 80 years. Lewisham Hospital was owned and operated by a Catholic order of nursing sisters. The name of the hospital was changed to Calvary Hospital in 1953 and the Mary Potter Hospice operated at the hospital until 1990.
In December 2015, Evolution Healthcare (a privately owned Australian and New Zealand private hospital operator) acquired 100% of Acurity Health Group Ltd (NZ). Evolution Healthcare continues to focus on supporting staff, VMO engagement and developing the staged expansion plan for Wakefield Hospital.
https://www.acurity.co.nz/about-us/our-history

I am more interested in the claim about the ownership structure, specifically this "The fact that the palliative care doctor arguing with Seymour is involved with a private healthcare facility has it's ownership structured in a way through a systematic series of holding companies ultimately ending up in the Channel Island's, a known tax haven".

[lissica]

I didn't want to appear as mean or nasty. I apologize if you felt I meant to come off that way.

If Euthanasia is made legal, there is going to be less of a need for palliative care. Less palliative care equals less money (e.g. government subsidies, funding etc and also private money) given to anyone involved with providing palliative care.

adjective: palliative (of a medicine or medical care) relieving pain without dealing with the cause of the condition.

adjective: pecuniary relating to or consisting of money.

The fact that the palliative care doctor arguing with Seymour is involved with a private healthcare facility has it's ownership structured in a way through a systematic series of holding companies ultimately ending up in the Channel Island's, a known tax haven. If she wasn't involved with this organization I would have kept my mouth shut.

I doubt Dr Donnelly is doing so to remain gainfully employed, there is plenty of work for palliative care physicians. Nor has she argued from the standpoint of religion.

David Seymour can do better than that.

[Blue Skies]

When asked what their top priorities would be on getting to parliament, one of the new ACT MP's said,
defeating communism,
property rights,
& loosening the gun laws.

Scary, sounds like he belongs in Trump's America.

[Panda-NZ-]

When asked what their top priorities would be on getting to parliament, one of the new ACT MP's said,
defeating communism,
property rights,
& loosening the gun laws.

Scary, sounds like he belongs in Trump's America.

& the financial perks of course. So, a party which doesn't believe in government now has 10 people drawing a salary on the taxpayer.

[fungus pudding]

& the financial perks of course. A party which doesn't believe in government now has 10 people drawing a salary on the taxpayer.

Another dopey comment.